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Echi

 

Posts: 452
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to Echi

Yes it's Antonia Thanks.


and
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2018 19:54:51
 
Ricardo

Posts: 10682
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to Echi

Yes....despite different recording techniques at play here, the guitar voices sound identical to me, even more obvious right next to each other....anyone skeptical should do a blind test IMO.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2018 22:18:29
 
estebanana

 

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RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to Echi

The obvious reason Vicente or anyone else don't play a Santos is that Santos has not produced a guitar in 75 years. So any argument based on artists choice is a straw man argument. It moves the goalposts on the objective of the study of Santos. Further the idea that there's a new guitar and an older style flamenco is also a dubious argument; a straw man revisionist view of guitar history can't change that

You can have any take on it based on video or small sample size equivocating opinions, but the guitar did not substantially change at all. They simply became slightly overbuilt. That's all it is. I'm sorry but you're just wrong.

You cannot make an argument based on one player, ( small sample) or move the goalposts by saying artists don't play older guitars because they don't have the power. It's absolutely wrong. Players today don't play Barbero's in public because they are too rare and too expensive. The trend has moved from playing older guitars for several reasons and they are not because Paco has robust technique. Mostly what has driven it is the same thing that drives all mass production guitars. They are over built so the company does not go out of business getting sued for guitars that fall apart. Guitars are over built ever since Ramirez made them beefier for an international market. Flamenco guitars followed the unfortunate trend. The guitar is the Same its just 10% over built. If you don't understand that you're not getting the guitar at all. Selling the concept that the guitar changed is a market strategy.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2018 0:21:59
 
estebanana

 

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Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to Echi

All string instruments are developed historically on one major factor, string technology. The string drives the development of the instrument. The one major deviation from this was Torres who changed the guitar rapidly because the instrument could bear being scaled up because the string could handle it.

The cello and violin developed the same way, they changed because the string technology improved. There was one major deviation in that instrument family also, the neck of the violin changed. The violin remained the violin, there was no new and old violin, the set up style changed. It affected the strength of the instrument.

The guitar changed again with nylon strings, it scaled itself to a new string technology, and it opened a new possible range of technique for the player. The player stepped into a new string world, not the guitar stepped into a new playing world.

The last iteration of the Spanish guitar before Smallman changed the instrument without a new string was nylon redesign, and that coupled with new problems of mass production longevity moved the guitar to be overbuilt.

What independent makers have been doing, is undoing the damage.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2018 0:51:51
 
constructordeguitarras

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Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to estebanana

Interesting insight, Stephen.

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www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2018 1:14:34
 
estebanana

 

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RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to Echi

The nylon strings affordability is what allowed the guitar to be an instrument played by more people because you didn't have to spend more money than you could afford on the string. The nylon string also drove the guitar to be made heavier. The design of any string instrument us driven by the physics of the string, the other influences are secondary. It's not the other way around. It's physics.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2018 2:03:11
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1230
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to estebanana

Is that why there are more cats now too?

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2018 2:17:35
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7428
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to constructordeguitarras

No, but there are fewer sheep being sold as rope. Cats are alien space invaders controlling our minds.

The thing is, there's not one narrative based on players influence, it's much more mundane and complex. The guitar switched from being a small shop craft item to a full blown peice of industrial design in the age of mechanical reproduction. The common easy narrative in the Flamenco-centric world wants to shut the narrative into a hermetically sealed cave. It's just not that simple. And the micro changes to the guitar don't constitute a sea change in primary concept. If people insist of putting forth this micro change narrative, I'm going to offer a counter narrative as a provocation to the reader to dig deeper. That's all.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2018 3:54:44
 
Echi

 

Posts: 452
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to Echi

quote:

The obvious reason Vicente or anyone else don't play a Santos is that Santos has not produced a guitar in 75 years. So any argument based on artists choice is a straw man argument. It moves the goalposts on the objective of the study of Santos. Further the idea that there's a new guitar and an older style flamenco is also a dubious argument; a straw man revisionist view of guitar history can't change that

You can have any take on it based on video or small sample size equivocating opinions, but the guitar did not substantially change at all. They simply became slightly overbuilt. That's all it is. I'm sorry but you're just wrong.

You cannot make an argument based on one player, ( small sample) or move the goalposts by saying artists don't play older guitars because they don't have the power. It's absolutely wrong. [...]
The guitar is the Same its just 10% over built. If you don't understand that you're not getting the guitar at all. Selling the concept that the guitar changed is a market strategy.


In advance, let’s take it easy. At the end of the day it’s just a matter of different views and opinions.
Coming to your post, I didn’t use a straw man here as I’m not speaking of a certain player preferring a Reyes to a Santos in order to come to entail that Reyes is better than Santos or things like that. I said something else (old and new flamenco, old sound, new sound) that for me as for many in Spain is very evident. There’s a chance I may be wrong but this is my actual though about it.
All the top players in Spain (name them) in these days mostly play either Reyes or Conde and it’s not because of unavailability of Arcangels, Barberos etc. Nobody can say for sure the reason why people like Gerardo, Antonio Rey, Tomatito, Vicente, Paco, Guerrero, Valencia etc. don’t play a Barbero or a Santos.
In my opinion more recent guitars are not better, but as you say, are overbuilt than the old masters guitars (or the old ones are underbuilt for the actual demand). We can just guess. You say it’s a market strategy but this must have been a successful strategy. .
In my opinion is a straw man to say that the good players keep the good guitars at home to save them or that there is not availability of old guitars (it’s not the same for Violins ?) or that the actual players are not able to discern or things like that.

I agreed with you that everything was already present in the making of Santos and possibly that we must understand better Santos as many makers are rediscovering Torres. Nonetheless it seems to me that it happened an evolution.


Coming to my case, I recently played a 1963 Reyes. Fantastic guitar, very Santos made, but very different from the recent Reyes I tried some months ago. If that guitar was perfect, why Reyes himself changed his way to build? Possibly the demand was for a bigger guitar and Reyes used to sell guitar for a living.
A famous professional player tried the very same old Reyes (belonging to a friend) in a masterclass and my friend took a video of him playing: he kept saying that the guitar is like Santos, the good old sound etc. Then he put it down apparently without a particular interest. The same way that a motorbike aficionado would look to a good old motorbike.

Let’s be clear: I wouldn’t say that the more recent Reyes are better. I wouldn’t say either that it’s just the same old guitar but the 10% overbuilt. To my ears that guitar sounded like something different, for good or bad.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2018 9:07:10
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1230
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to Echi

quote:

he kept saying that the guitar is like Santos, the good old sound etc. Then he put it down apparently without a particular interest.


I wonder if a current preference for overbuilt flamenco guitars by performers is due to the modern habit of subjecting one's self to constant sound and sound that is amplified and maybe too loud for human ears to be safely subjected to. An old-style guitar may have a more delicate sound, one that may not project well in a noisy crowd, and that may be the reason for the lack of particular interest: Modern people are ruining their ears.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2018 15:12:48
 
jshelton5040

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RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to constructordeguitarras

quote:

ORIGINAL: constructordeguitarras
An old-style guitar may have a more delicate sound, one that may not project well in a noisy crowd, and that may be the reason for the lack of particular interest: Modern people are ruining their ears.

I don't know Ethan, I've played a couple of old flamenco guitars that were surprisingly loud (Barbero and Esteso). Never played a loud Santos but I suspect the ones I've seen were completely worn out or were not great examples.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2018 16:12:10
 
RobJe

 

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Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to constructordeguitarras

quote:

I wonder if a current preference for overbuilt flamenco guitars by performers is due to the modern habit of subjecting one's self to constant sound and sound that is amplified and maybe too loud for human ears to be safely subjected to.


It’s due to scratch aversion syndrome leading to frequent re-sanding and re-finishing. Eventually the guitar top gets thin enough to sound good. It’s the curse of our age. Some older guitars have been destroyed by it. The 1929 Santos restored a few years ago by Rohan Lowe had to have a new piece of spruce inserted in the soundboard to restore its thickness and make it playable. We need to learn to love scratches.

Rob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2018 22:32:25
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1230
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to RobJe

quote:

It’s due to scratch aversion syndrome


I agree that guitarists are often too fussy about minor scratches. On the other hand, some are downright abusive of guitar tops. I wish guitars could be seen the way violins are seen, where little blemishes don't matter at all. I think they add gravitas.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2018 23:05:37
 
JasonM

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Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to RobJe

With my HB Pencil on a piece of PAPER I drew me some lines. For a setup of 8mm at the bridge. 3mm at 12 fret, I would need to raise the neck forward between 2-3mm, I don't remember exactly. I didn't factor a dome. With the Reyes plan, the bridge is 7mm to the top of the slot. Then add some meat on the saddle. Then add another millimeter for string tension, then add some dome, and I could see how you get to 10mm. Any of you build without dome?

Rob, you are right I'm getting a little overwhelmed with info. I got myself into trouble making the neck from not thinking and planning things all the way through. So I want to be more careful going forward. many have suggested the Santos plan in the back the Master book. I have the book and have looked over it. At the moment I'm getting the sense that I don't trust the geometry in any of these plans! But ATM I plan to stick with THE plan, I just need to figure out how to fit the top to tapered sides.

Ive never seen any microphones in the Carlos Suara films.

And thanks to all for the advise!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2018 2:03:16
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
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RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to JasonM

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

With my HB Pencil on a piece of PAPER I drew me some lines. For a setup of 8mm at the bridge. 3mm at 12 fret, I would need to raise the neck forward between 2-3mm, I don't remember exactly. I didn't factor a dome. With the Reyes plan, the bridge is 7mm to the top of the slot. Then add some meat on the saddle. Then add another millimeter for string tension, then add some dome, and I could see how you get to 10mm. Any of you build without dome?


As a rule it's better to use a little less deflection than you think is proper. You can always add taper to the fingerboard to adjust the action. This is the voice of experience. We use 1.5mm deflection with 3mm dome in the the top.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2018 2:15:30
 
Echi

 

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RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to Echi

I agree, I use 1.5 mm deflection too. There is always a little pull up of the top.

quote:

It’s due to scratch aversion syndrome leading to frequent re-sanding and re-finishing. Eventually the guitar top gets thin enough to sound good

To my surprise what was in my estimation a clearly overbuilt guitar, as soon as it had the top thinned down (the owner made a mess with the golpeador and peeled off the synthetic varnish), got definitely worst. I admit I don’t understand the logic behind many successful guitars.
I must add that to my eyes a badly worn shellac finish looks better than a scratched synthetic finish.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2018 9:45:56
 
RobF

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RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to JasonM

Hi Jason, here is a quick take on a straightforward way to do the assembly, I don’t actually do it this way but I’m confident it’s going to work.

First, in this method, the edge of the sides meeting the top are kept flat and the taper will be defined on the edge of the side that meets the back.

For the workboard, take a piece of stable plywood about 3/4” thick and cut it out with the body area wide enough to accommodate whatever back joining method you choose and with a 3” wide neck extension protruding 320mm out from the 12th fret portion of the plantilla. Then cut a piece of high ply 1/4” plywood in the shape of your plantilla, giving it a few mm extra width but keeping the 12th fret line accurate, and laminate it to the body portion of the workboard. Draw the the shape of the plantilla on this.

The result of this will give you a workboard which has the body portion sitting 1/4” proud of the neck extension. Now, to obtain a neck rise of 1.5mm, for example (but a reasonable rise to choose), make a shim out of MDF about 1.5mm less thick than the thickness of the body lamination and tape it to the nut end of the neck extension. If you use 1/4” ply for the body lamination the shim should be a little less than 5mm thick. The beauty of using a shim is you can easily adjust the neck rise in subsequent builds by changing the shim.

Even if you want to build flat, I would recommend doming the lower bout portion of the body to about 1.5mm under the bridge. That’s still pretty flat looking. The laminations of the high-ply lamination can be used as witness lines to show the symmetry of the dishing. Only dish the lower bout area to about 2 to 3mm inside the outline of the body. This will allow you to keep the sides flat but will bring the dome to inside the width of the liners.

For your body taper, dimension the sides to be about 2mm less than the body depth at the end block. Joint the top edges but the back edges are ok as they are off the saw. When the sides are bent and dimensioned to fit the body join them to the top - flat - and attach the end block.

Now for the taper. At this phase in your career I think you won’t regret ordering or making a 15’ radius sanding dish. You can always sell it later. I know a lot of builders scoff at using dishes, but this will get you to your goal with the least headache, IMO, and more importantly will enable a good, solid attachment of the back to the sides.

Mark the sides at the heel to be about 1 to 2mm shallower than the desired overall depth at the heel. If measuring from the inside make that 3 to 4mm. The reason it’s less than the overall depth is because the top and back will each be adding about 2mm to the depth. Don’t stress if the body depths are a little off from the plan’s.

Now, if you’re going to use a dish to obtain the final shaping, take a block plane and taper from the upper bout side of the waist to the marking at the heel. Be mindful to plane with the grain when doing this. Then take the sanding dish and rest it on the sides. You’ll see the taper you planed into them has already done a lot of the work for you. It’s helpful to mark the edge of the sides with chalk to show when all of the edges have been hit by the sanding board. Also periodically measure around the sides while sanding to ensure you are keeping consistent dimensions on the treble and bass bouts.

Once the taper/dome has been established, attach your liners to be about 1mm proud of the side edge and once dry, resand. You now have tapered sides ready to accept the back.

Also, using the dish presumes the back braces will be radiused to 15’. That’s a new discussion, but it’s dead simple and fast to do that with a block plane.

Hope this helps. It’s just one way to go about this, but it should get you your guitar without too much fanfare. I have to get back to the shop so I’ll proof-read this later to make sure I haven’t messed up any of the measurements. But the method is sound.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2018 15:43:14
 
JasonM

Posts: 578
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to RobF

Shelton, good to know about the deflection I'll keep that in mind.

Rob, definitely helps! Thanks for taking the time to write all that out. Very clear. I like your plan. 1.5mm dome at the lower bout but keep it 2-3mm from the edge - like in the courtenal book. Is this visible on the top? What if I were to take the dome to the edge? I like the idea for the workboard and shim instead of a ramp. I'm going to use that. I've found that even Baltic birch ply is not exactly flat though. I actually have access to a cnc router at the shop so I might use that to make a radius dish.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2018 23:08:20
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
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RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to JasonM

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

I'm going to use that. I've found that even Baltic birch ply is not exactly flat though. I actually have access to a cnc router at the shop so I might use that to make a radius dish.

If you want flat, glue two or three pieces of 3/4 MDF together. That's what we've used for all our jigs. It helps to have a really flat bench to do the glue-up but it tends to be really flat even without the flat bench. The bench we use has a 2" high density particle board top with plastic laminate over that.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2018 23:57:05
 
RobF

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RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to JasonM

If you have access to a CNC router then you could also use it to route out the dome in the solera. Lucky guy. I would follow John’s advice concerning laminating two or three pieces of MDF for stability. You could then add an additional 1/4” piece to that to get the elevation for the shim concept. I have one made with ply now, but I bolt a jointed piece of cherry to it to try to hold it stable. I’ll think I’ll follow John’s advice myself when I build another.

Keeping the perimeter flat for a few mm inside the outline helps ensure the top is held to a consistent plane. The sides will take up 2mm of the flat part, so 2mm is sufficient. I make the peonies that I use for the lower bout at 92 degrees to account for the doming. Above the harmonic bar for the upper bout I use 90 degrees.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2018 1:00:47
 
RobF

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RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to JasonM

Just for the sake of clarity, I mentioned doming to 1.5mm as an alternative to building a flat top. I dome to a 25’ radius, which is more than that. If you are using Tom’s plan maybe he can weigh in with a recommendation. But even a 25’ radius is fairly flat, IMO. Best.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2018 1:43:59
 
JasonM

Posts: 578
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to jshelton5040

In this cnc shop there are always scraps of sheet goods perfect for jigs, shooting boards, soleras etc. I always find myself opting for mdf over Baltic birch for the flatness as unstable as it is. I'm planning to use it to dish out the workboard. The downside is all your time is spent in front of the computer but the end results are worth it. Its part of this Co op shop I joined. But I have to lug my stuff back and forth until I fork over for a private studio. Probably will for assembly portion of build.

Ok that's good to know. I'm going to go with a very slight dome in the lower bout extending to the bridge of just beyond. I'm still working out the numbers. But I'm going to use your advise and go to 2mm to the edge. I think Reyes and Tom take it all the way, but Tom has the advantage of assembling top up.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2018 19:26:00
 
mqbernardo

 

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RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to Echi

fwiw i keep the dome around 10 mm from the edge of the palntilla (like courtnall and others). it leaves space for the rims and peones, which are easier to accommodate.
in the long run, things tend to even out and i rout away a portion of it for bindings anyway. join integrity doesn't´t seem to be compromised.
what i´d like to try at some point is the central european (turned american) way of building the body and neck in separate, and joining them with a dovetail or mortise.

a question: is layered and thick MDF really more stable? the shooting board i made out of MDF (just 2 layers of 10 mm) warped badly, and it was shellacked.

cheers,
miguel.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2018 23:04:46
 
Tom Blackshear

 

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RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to mqbernardo

quote:

i keep the dome around 10 mm from the edge of the plantilla (like courtnall and others). it leaves space for the rims and peones, which are easier to accommodate.


I think it's acceptable to say there is not much taper the way I build with the top right side up, so there is no real trouble for the lining, especially since the top taper is not actually domed under the bridge in the first place, only extended to a certain lift at the bottom and then slightly tapered down around the sides to be flat across the top in front of the bridge.

The taper around the sides, from the bottom, gives the appearance of a slight dome behind the bridge. And then the string torque finishes off the appearance that gives the bridge area its own slight dome, without actually having to create a dome to begin with.

This is accomplished with the bridge being slightly curved when installed on the top.

So, if Reyes dished out his solera at the bottom to provide a slight taper then this goes against my idea of leaving the top flat to improve certain sustain and power.

Certainly it is secured as the way for most builders to operate but I have found it is very interesting to build the flat top, as a way to improve sound.

So can my flat top be regulated for a solera....Yes, as it doesn't require any dishing out on the work board, only lifted at the bottom by tapered shims and then gluing in the individual linings that go around the sides on a taper.

Reyes dished out his work board at the very bottom which crimps the top toward the bottom. This works but I believe to leave the top free to vibrate gives better sound capacity.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2018 23:39:00
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1230
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to mqbernardo

quote:

is layered and thick MDF really more stable?


Even one layer of MDF is stable. I you coat it with shellac or anything else, make sure you coat it on both sides. Otherwise it will warp. Same for all sheet goods.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2018 23:53:00
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 18 2005
 

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to mqbernardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: mqbernardo
a question: is layered and thick MDF really more stable? the shooting board i made out of MDF (just 2 layers of 10 mm) warped badly, and it was shellacked.

miguel.

I've had no problem with warping MDF but that doesn't mean it can't happen. Most of our forms and jigs were made many years ago with high density particle board and they are still functioning properly. I do check them occasionally to make sure they are still flat. I've always used a solid wood (mostly Spanish Cedar) laminated to the MDF or particle board for soleras since it's much easier to shape. Is your shop humidity controlled? That is the variable that is most important in these endeavors.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2018 0:07:04
 
mqbernardo

 

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Joined: Mar. 26 2012
 

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to Echi

thanks for the reply. yes, its RH controlled. it fluctuates around 47-52% on the rainy months
i guess the problem is that the MDF comes from warehouses that are much more humid, and when it gets to the shop it warps/cups. not much, but its pretty pervasive. also happens with plywood. i try to let them adapt to the shop (not so far as to sticker them, but i try to store them in a way that both sides get air). anyway, even in the hardware store most of the "boards" are not flat.

i think i should try hydrophobe MDF.


best,
Miguel.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2018 1:32:58
 
estebanana

 

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Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to Echi

Thumbs down to MDF

Poplar or clear pine, 1/2 thick, edge joined 14" wide. Glue to 3/4 ply stiffen with straight 2x4 under.

Carve concave of arch with violinmakers thumb plane, and oval shape scraper.

Later if solera get out of true, replane face and rescoop.

Or use 1" thick floor ply and violin finger planes. two hours. Done.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2018 3:28:32
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7428
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to Echi

Or just draw your plantilla on plywood and glue a 1/4 diameter rope on the outline. Press top into and an arch will deflect. Glue braces with fingers and hot hide glue holding them for 5 minutes. Boom you're an old Paracho maker.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2018 3:34:22
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2437
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Specs in a guitar plan (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana
Boom you're an old Paracho maker.


Saw a video of German Vazquez Rubio, who has lived in Los Angeles, California for many years, carving a neck with a Paracho style knife. I wondered whether he made the knife from an automobile leaf spring, grinding and tempering it himself, the way they did 60 years ago when I first went to Paracho.

On the other hand, I spent a couple of hours in Abel Garcia's shop in Paracho. It's built on the roof of his nice masonry and stone house--very nice furniture in the marble floored living room. Aside from the beautiful view of the surrounding mountains with their subtropical forest, you could have been in Germany. He even had a cabinet with a glass door and ultraviolet lights, giving some spruce tops a sun tan.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2018 4:36:48
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