study in spain (really need suggestions)

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asadguitarist

Posts: 12
Joined: Jul. 2 2017

study in spain (really need suggestions)

Hey Guys I need some suggestion . I am playing guitar for a long time but new to flamenco, just started learning few months back.
I gonna take a break from my job for two or three months. I am planning to go spain and learn guitar there .
I have two options for Visa
1. Regular tourist visa for 30 days or less
2. Short term study visa for 90 days .

but for short term study visa i need to enroll in a school who will provide me a letter of confirmation of my enrollment which is required
by spanish embassy in my country .
I have two options for study according to my visa status , If i get 30 days tourist visa I am thinking about taking private classes with El Entri in madrid
second option is to enroll in Carmen de las cuevas flamenco school granada for 3 months guitar program.

This is a life time opportunity for me to go somewhere and study dedicately , After that i might not get a break from my job in coming few years .
Kindly suggest me I dont want to waste this opportunity .
I would really appreciate your response

Thanks

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2017 10:23:19

asadguitarist

Posts: 12
Joined: Jul. 2 2017

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Sep. 21 2017 18:21:41

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2017 14:10:52

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: study in spain (really need sugg... (in reply to asadguitarist)

You could try using the foro search. There are plenty of opinions on the foro about Carmen de las cuevas and also El Entri, e.g.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/searchpro.asp?topicreply=both&message=both&timeframe=%3E&timefilter=0&top=300&criteria=AND&minRank=10&language=single&phrase=Carmen+de+las+cuevas

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2017 15:12:17

asadguitarist

Posts: 12
Joined: Jul. 2 2017

RE: study in spain (really need sugg... (in reply to orsonw)

Oh thats really cool , I will checkout the reviews .

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2017 18:45:15

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: study in spain (really need sugg... (in reply to asadguitarist)

If those are your only two choices, I'd go for Carmen. El Entri is an excellent teacher but I think you'd benefit more from his teaching by having him as a regular teacher over a long period. The teachers at Carmen may not be as good as him, but the way it's structured will jolt you into learning a lot in a short period of time. Plus you'll come back with a lot of material to study.
If you were coming for a longer period of time, it'd be another story but with the parameters you gave, I'd go for Carmen. Plus Granada is beautiful and Cano Roto is...well...not.

When I first signed on to the foro I looked through the archives and found this guy who had spent a few years in Madrid and made it sound like he was spending all day-long everyday at El Entri's place. Living the dream spending all day with a maestro. Except that that's not what you need. Nobody needs 7 hours a day with a teacher. You need maybe 1 hour with a teacher but the bulk of the work you need to do is on your own, alone in a room. Sure enough, when I found this guy's page on YouTube, his music was...underwhelming to say the least. So make sure you have time to practice on your own.
Ricardo has said a few times on here something along the lines that whether you're able to learn or not doesn't have so much to do with the teacher as it does with the student. Basically it matters more whether you are a good student than whether you have a good teacher. At first I thought: how convenient that somebody who teaches would think that. But I now think he's 100% correct about that. So with that in mind, even if the teachers aren't as good at Carmen (they're still decent, not bad at all), that's still 3-months of learning vs. just 1 in Madrid. 3 months is better.

edit: oh and BTW, not sure El Entri even gives private classes. He teaches the old-school style, with everyone from all levels in the same room. Always a 7-year old kid in there that plays better than everybody else.

It's a great experience to have but if you were thinking one-on-one classes, you may want to ask him first whether he even does that.

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2017 21:51:38

asadguitarist

Posts: 12
Joined: Jul. 2 2017

RE: study in spain (really need sugg... (in reply to Piwin)

Thats true , This is what i am thinking its worth to live there for three months , feel the real flamenco life and meet people there , attending live shows and come across with local musicians and exchange notes with other student . And the school is not only about guitar , they teach cante n balle too . so that another opportunity to accompannying them and see how they do that .
Thanks Piwi for your input .
I will keep updating about my journey .

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 16 2017 13:37:15

Ricardo

Posts: 14802
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: study in spain (really need sugg... (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

Ricardo has said a few times on here something along the lines that whether you're able to learn or not doesn't have so much to do with the teacher as it does with the student. Basically it matters more whether you are a good student than whether you have a good teacher. At first I thought: how convenient that somebody who teaches would think that. But I now think he's 100% correct about that.

Ole!!!

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www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 18 2017 16:36:57

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: study in spain (really need sugg... (in reply to asadguitarist)

For me essentially teachers can help you by showing you what your doing wrong, bad habbits or whatnot, but after that you still need to do the work yourself.

If anything I recommend private lessons, the results I saw from these schools ( In particular carmen de las cuevas ) is really bad.

What the crap is that man, you pay a bunch of money to take a class with a bunch of people on varying levels, in the end all you end up with is a some videos you have to take yourself , assuming you have a camera, then you take it home and practice yourself anyway!

The good ones stick around and end up finding their own path and the other ones simply just came to Andalucia to do a course on Flamenco and left, some others got poached by a local Gypsy and paid in advance for a months worth of lessons which were never fully received lol.

Granada is good though, I think there is alot more free flamenco over here than in Madrid perhaps? or more condensed into certain areas making it easier to find you. Eitherway there is alot of flamenco students here on different levels , learning in different ways and from different people and also real flamencos too, not just students, if your good enough you can jam with them.

It's very hard though, hats off to anyone here who actually maintains compas and can accompany. What balls that must have taken.

Another thing about granada is , if you can play an instrument decently you also have opportunity of making money from it either by playing on the street or better yet hitting up terraces. It's the way most musicians earn their tapa and bag of weed here.

I think Granada is obviously a better choice than Madrid and a much more pleasant place to live. If you are around and have interest in Flamenco I guarantee your going to make friends here, how much you learn once again back to the origin of the post is up too you.

At the same time becareful when your dealing with los gitanos please. Their is alot of ways you can get ****ed over in Spain, and its especially bad when it comes to theft.

All this being considerd if you don't speak Spanish , it's going to be hard to be taken seriously unless you got some real compas going for ya.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2017 14:20:29

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: study in spain (really need sugg... (in reply to withinity)

quote:

At the same time becareful when your dealing with los gitanos please. Their is alot of ways you can get ****ed over in Spain, and its especially bad when it comes to theft.

I take excepcion to this racist statement. I have been working with flamencos for 20 years and would trust a gitano before I would trust a payo.

A guiri who has no experience should be careful with everybody, because there are many people sin vergueñza, but please do not run down los gitanos without reason.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2017 15:49:53

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: study in spain (really need sugg... (in reply to withinity)

quote:

take a class with a bunch of people on varying levels

FYI this is the traditional way of teaching kids...

quote:

and practice yourself anyway

Which you would have to do even with a private teacher... duh...

quote:

It's the way most musicians earn their tapa and bag of weed here

If you're paying for tapas in Granada than you're getting screwed over.
Every town has its lot of buskers. "Most musicians" shouldn't matter. You should care about what the better musicians are doing. And they're earning their money in the tablaos and in the penas if the latter still have some money, not on the street. I have nothing against busking. I still do it myself for the fun of it. But if that's your only crowd, then you're limiting yourself to the bottom of the barrel (and yes, I include myself in that).

Granada has this hippitano subculture. Which is fine I guess, but you shouldn't mistake it with the real deal. There's a huge difference in quality. If you're there on the long run and are serious about flamenco, get off the streets and into a pena.

quote:

At the same time becareful when your dealing with los gitanos please.

Seriously? If you have a problem with gitanos I suggest you pack up, go home and take up another genre of music.

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2017 16:08:40

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: study in spain (really need sugg... (in reply to asadguitarist)

Well I think its normal in Granada that you buy a beer and you get a tapa gratis, but when you really think about it the tapa is not gratis its actually calculated into the cost and if you purely just wanted a beer you could go to any coviran or chino and get that for half price but their is no tapa.

I don't have a problem with anyone I just said be-careful. You want to learn , so your kind of at the mercy of others in a way. In my opinion it's a big investment of life - an outsider learning flamenco to play in collaboration for real, rather than alone in a bedroom.

So whether you throw a bunch of parties fueled by women and drugs or you decide to get ripped off by carmen de las cuevas , nothing is free ; especially in Spain a place that survives primarily off the foreigners. Yes Morante guiris should be careful of everyone.

I'm not mistaking the Hippitano culture with the real one either man. I well know the difference and I like this word you created though.

Morente, I wouldn't trust or distrust anyone in relation to their race but I would monitor the individual. In this context foreigners can very well be vulnerable. If your going to take a master then hopefully they have your interests at heart and actually care. Call me racist or whatever but I think the culture and gitanos are very opportunistic in general. If your not your probably a pussy.

Anyway my point is , the south of Spain is awesome and if you like flamenco its on steroids.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2017 0:57:15

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: study in spain (really need sugg... (in reply to withinity)

quote:

ORIGINAL: withinity
Call me racist or whatever but I think the culture and gitanos are very opportunistic in general.

Gladly - you are an effing racist and you should be ashamed of yourself instead of parading here with your racism.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2017 1:59:45

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: study in spain (really need sugg... (in reply to withinity)

quote:

you really think about it the tapa is not gratis its actually calculated into the cost

Ask any bar owner in Granada about this. You might find it enlightening. It's a small miracle that there are any bars still open in Granada at all.

quote:

especially in Spain a place that survives primarily off the foreigners

Tourism accounts for 11 percent of Spain's GDP. That's big but I hardly call that surviving "primarily off (sic) the foreigners".

quote:

Call me racist or whatever but

No sentence that starts this way has ever ended well...

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2017 2:50:49