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Tried Alessi F6 95 gram tuners?   You are logged in as Guest
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NorCalluthier

 

Posts: 136
Joined: Apr. 16 2016
 

Tried Alessi F6 95 gram tuners? 
Hello All,

I've been thinking of using Alessi F6's on my flamenco gutars, and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with them. They are quite "spendy", and it would be nice to hear favorable reports before taking the plunge.

At 95 grams the F6's are very lightweight compared to to other brands and models. The Sloanes are at 148 grams for their older model, and 184 grams for their new ball bearing model. On a lightweight flamenco that's a significant difference in the balance of the guitar, as a little bit of extra weight out there at the end of the neck changes things a lot.

Cheers,

Brian
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2017 21:26:50
 
estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Tried Alessi F6 95 gram tuners? (in reply to NorCalluthier) 
Alessis look sexy and they are a brand name, but 400.00 tuners are custom order.

To me the problem is the body, or really the lightness of body. Rosewood guitars are not usually out of balance, but super eggshell blancas are.To me the best answer, is back to wood pegs. And if someone wants an 'egg shell' the Gotoh mid tier models and the second market copies are usually what I go for. There is a tuner called DerJung that is under $50.00 - lots of makers doing flamencos use them now.

I also like some of the Rubners with the roller bearing for rose wood bodies. Sloanes are always nice. Rubners and are about the same weight and quality.

If you can charge the extra money to make your 400.00 after your speculate on the Alessi, sure. But some of the Gotoh knock offs really have proven to be a good flamenco tuner and the mid line Gotoh.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2017 23:00:43
 
NorCalluthier

 

Posts: 136
Joined: Apr. 16 2016
 

RE: Tried Alessi F6 95 gram tuners? (in reply to estebanana) 
Hello Stephen

~ Alessis look sexy and they are a brand name, but 400.00 tuners are custom order.

Savage Guitars gives a bit of a discount on them.

~To me the problem is the body, or really the lightness of body. Rosewood guitars are not usually out of balance, but super eggshell blancas are.To me the best answer, is back to wood pegs.

I think wood pegs are a deal killer. So I use Planetary Pegs, but even they get some opposition. "Three of them turn the wrong way"!

~ And if someone wants an 'egg shell' the Gotoh mid tier models and the second market copies are usually what I go for.

I have a couple of sets of Gotohs, and they come in at 155 grams. "A pound at the masthead is worth 10 at the keel."

~ I also like some of the Rubners with the roller bearing for rose wood bodies. Sloanes are always nice. Rubners and are about the same weight and quality.

I use the new Sloanes on my rosewood classics, as I like the look of them a lot. And classical players don't have a balance problem with even a lightweight guitar, as their playing position takes care of that.

~ If you can charge the extra money to make your 400.00 after your speculate on the Alessi, sure. But some of the Gotoh knock offs really have proven to be a good flamenco tuner...

Truth be known, I never met a machine head that I didn't like. The differences in their function seem very small to me. I do like an ultralight blanca, and I still hold the guitar in the old style flamenco position. I'll bet that those F6's come close to the same weight as a set of pegs, if you allow for the head slots.

Ah yes, the money! I asked Kenny Hill one time why he used expensive tuners, and he said "For the oooo value!"

Cheers,

Brian



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 4 2017 0:09:58
 
estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Tried Alessi F6 95 gram tuners? (in reply to NorCalluthier) 
I like pegheds too, most of us Foroneers use them. I have a set waiting for a customer to request them.

Today, meaning in the last year, I've decided to go back to being a Hardliner in wood pegs. I built three guitars last year that the customer afterwards expressed remorse at not having had me make them with real wood pegs.


I think there is a reevaluation of wood pegs happening, at least as far as my clients. Many players are wanting a guitar with geared tuners and one with pegs. We all know tuners with gears are more of sure thing on stage, but more players are getting confidence to use pegs again and I am 200% in support of them.

Guitars with pegs are just prettier and romantic. It's like the difference between using a very utility based ball point pen and a fine fountain pen.

The fountain pen is not practical to haul around in your pocket, car, or for all situations. The ball point can be very well made and function beautifully. And then the fountain pen may be more esoteric and take more time to master, but it gives rewards in performance and aesthetic pleasure, and a haptic quality the ball point lacks.

Pegs and gears are a similar comparison. And there is a lot of collector appeal to say beautiful and plum wood or box wood pegs, and ebony is always classic. There are players who see the practical value of pegs too, the balance is almost always better.

Peghead type tuners, geared pegs, are only going to get better as time passes, so a guitar made with wood pegs can always be refitted with future iterations of geared pegs if the owner wants.

I also want to get a good reputation for my wood peg guitars because I just love making peg models. I've been making peg appointments with a silver wire inlay into the tip of the the peg.

But I suppose I would use the Alessi tuner if I wanted to charge amori.

That's a joke son, get it, Alessi - amori ........





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 4 2017 3:36:43
 
estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Tried Alessi F6 95 gram tuners? (in reply to NorCalluthier) 
If I remember correctly the Der Jung brand shaves 15 grams off the weight of the Gotoh mid tier. Still not under a 100, but not bad.

Schertler individual tuners are not significantly lighter in terms of 6 at time, but they come in undermost four on a plate tuner sets for 7 and 8 string guitars, in grams. So for 7 strings I use those tuners for balance.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 4 2017 5:17:44
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Tried Alessi F6 95 gram tuners? (in reply to NorCalluthier) 
I was pretty underwhelmed with the last lot of Alessi tuners I used. They were his no expense spared Hauser model but there was a few rough areas that definitely showed these tuners were thrown together. The action wasn't all that smooth either. I think if you going to spend the money you can do a lot better.

Personally, after trying out some Schaller grandtune, I have decided to use those on all guitars. The gearing is smooth, precise and has no play in the mechanism. If you buy directly from Schaller you can also get them for a very good price. These come in at a hefty 150 grams without the bearings.

If lightness is the only consideration Alessi might be the only option

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 4 2017 7:55:22
 
benros

 

Posts: 144
Joined: Aug. 27 2016
 

RE: Tried Alessi F6 95 gram tuners? (in reply to NorCalluthier) 
i thought about getting some if these to. i saw and tried them ones on a guitar and liked them. but the builder who put them on, didnt count for the design with the purfling, so it looked a little bit strange to see the the part of the headstock side which normally is covered by the tuners. but otherwise i think its also a opportunity to do something stylish designwise with it. btw, i asked alessi for the price and they are by far his cheapest model (only 170 euro excl. vat and shipping).
greetings,
ben
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 4 2017 8:27:12
 
estebanana

Posts: 9351
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RE: Tried Alessi F6 95 gram tuners? (in reply to Stephen Eden) 
quote:

Personally, after trying out some Schaller grandtune, I have decided to use those on all guitars. The gearing is smooth, precise and has no play in the mechanism. If you buy directly from Schaller you can also get them for a very good price. These come in at a hefty 150 grams without the bearings.


Which is your favorite pattern? I've used Schallers too, they feel a bit Germanic to me, visually, but no gripes about performance. I got into the Rubner line because I had a customer request them, and I bought a few sets and liked them. And Schaller's before that along with Gotoh, but I still like the Der Jung I get from Taiwan- no stigma attached.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 4 2017 8:34:49
 
Stephen Eden

 

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Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Tried Alessi F6 95 gram tuners? (in reply to NorCalluthier) 
The GrandTune model Hauser plates they've only been around for a year or so. I think they work better than Alessi to. I never used to like the older Schaller that Smallman used but with these they have really stepped it up.

I have used quite a lot of Rubner tuners as I used them on my Cadenza model. I also used to fit them as standard when I first started building. I am almost finished phasing them out now though moving over to Grand tune on the Cadenza as well.

Der Jung to me seem cheap and cheerful or shiny and bright. I was given a set of them that apparently retail for £250. I would feel embarrassed to actually use them though. Admittingly these ones have MOP buttons with an abalone inlay on the plates and a lyra which I have never liked. The mechanism just looks like the old cheap Spanish tuners which really puts me off.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 4 2017 9:49:06
 
estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Tried Alessi F6 95 gram tuners? (in reply to NorCalluthier) 
Well I'll have to have order a set of the new Schallers to check out. I did some looking online and I see they have stepped up the design. The gears look nice in that they are rounded over on top.

I've ever liked lyre style tuners, I use a very basic Der Jung that looks like a Gotoh, and if the customer does not want it they can have anything.

I like the Rubner,but they are a bit robust and heavy with the roller bearing for flamenco. Pegs are still fascinating to me, and lately my peg guitars have been sought after. I think it is market niche to not overlook.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 4 2017 12:02:40
 
NorCalluthier

 

Posts: 136
Joined: Apr. 16 2016
 

RE: Tried Alessi F6 95 gram tuners? (in reply to NorCalluthier) 
Hello Stephen,

Did Gene ever show you his trick of fitting wooden pegs tilted slightly forward? He would fit them so that the edge of the peg toward the body was vertical, and the edge toward the scroll was angled. That gave just enough of a component of pull from the string to tend to pull the peg into the hole. It isn't noticeable by a casual observer. He also preferred rosewood pegs, and I've always liked the viola peg size.

Years ago I tried fitting a set of ebony pegs in lignum vitae bushings. They were super smooth turning, but they were always right at the point of slipping. And those woods are both so hard that it was no use trying to stuff the peg in tighter!

I fitted a set of Planetary Pegs to Dave Borson's 1964 Clark, and he is delighted with them. Maybe Gene hadn't gotten good at peg fitting that early in his career. Mark Silber has an 8 string Clark that has wooden pegs that work wonderfully well.

By the way, Dave Borson at borsonresaw.com is the place to go if you have some valuable wood to be sliced up. He can get you enough greater yield to pay for the sawing job and the freight!

Dave has played flamenco forever, and ordered his Clark direct from Gene in 1964---and still plays it! I'm making him a Brazilian and redwood negra that should be together at the end of the month. I'll strum it a bit on one of my website videos.

Cheers,

Brian
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 4 2017 15:39:53
 
NorCalluthier

 

Posts: 136
Joined: Apr. 16 2016
 

RE: Tried Alessi F6 95 gram tuners? (in reply to NorCalluthier) 
Hello Ben,

Yes, the F6's look a bit skeletal, and I was figuring to try "stippling" the head wood in the spaces with a small nail-set. That would give it some texture, and probably a darker color as well.

If I remember correctly, Gene's reason for preferring rosewood pegs was that they were a bit more forgiving in the fitting, and provided a bit of lubrication that the ebony ones didn't. In mark's 8 string the pegs were ebony, however, and quite short!

Cheers,

Brian
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 4 2017 15:51:07
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Tried Alessi F6 95 gram tuners? (in reply to NorCalluthier) 
quote:

trick of fitting wooden pegs tilted slightly forward


Not very common I think, but Granada luthier Antonio Ariza (no longer with us) did the same for me on a beautifully balanced blanca weighing just 1.2 kg.

Rob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 4 2017 18:47:44
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