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Stu

Posts: 2057
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

Alegrias Escobilla 

Hello friends.

Haven't been around on here for ages as like many of the past/current members everything went on hold for the arrival of my daughter, Greta!



Still playing guitar regularly in classes but practicing/transcribing at home on the kind of geeky level I was a couple of years back is just impossoble these days. My guitar playing at home is now mainly an attempt to fill my daughters head with the sounds of flamenco (oh and the odd cheesy torch song)...until she gets annoyed and starts wailing.

I'm currently playing Alegrias in one off my dance classes and I have a question about the escobilla.

I've always just played the classic escobilla chord progression. E-Bb and back and forth. varying the melody and technique depending on the feel of the dance etc. But is there any room for doing something different?? if so what? could you play around with the other alegrias chords in that escobilla? what do the modern players do for their escobilla material?

I'm basically just a dance class guitarist whos bored of playing escobillla!

any info would be cool.

cheers





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2017 17:57:40
 
Piwin

Posts: 3404
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Stu

Cute kid, congrats!

And that's basically it because I don't have any good ideas on escobillas
It kind of has to be boring though, doesn't it? At least I was always told that the guitar was supposed to keep it simple during escobilla so as to focus all the attention on the dance. All I've got is a few variations where I basically harmonize on the main melody by playing elsewhere on the neck but even that I hardly ever do. Too risky if the dance teacher is in a mood!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2017 18:55:45
 
jimand

 

Posts: 45
Joined: Mar. 27 2010
 

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Stu

quote:

I've always just played the classic escobilla chord progression. E-Bb and back and forth


Like this? :-)

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2017 18:59:41
 
Mark2

Posts: 1706
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Stu

Think about the other chords and inversions that are in the key-C#m, F#m, G#m, etc.
For example substitute the F#m or Am for the B7, the G#m for the E, or move to Amaj instead of resolving on E, or use C on the 3 resolving to B7 on the ten for a compas or two.

Think Emaj footwork. Once they start to speed up, the standard riff just isn't needed at all. Pull out all your alegrias compas variations and progressions.....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2017 19:53:49
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Stu

I was taught exactly what Mark is saying. Super simple in the beginning and when you get speed you can improvise the chords. Especially by the time you're in full on rajeo. I've yet to master this, I have to learn their escobilla and map out my chords ahead of time.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2017 20:01:03
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1919
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Stu

The other night one of our better tocaores played for a classical alegrías. He played a picado falsetas, 6, 6, 12 etc and it sounded fine. Also easy to improvise.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2017 20:08:07
 
Piwin

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Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Mark2

I guess my question would have to be when do you guys consider that the escobilla ends and bulerias begins?
In my mind, if I'm just comping chords it's that I'm already in bulerias. At least that's how I think of it. But I guess technically the escobilla as defined for baile is still going on.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2017 20:16:09
 
Mark2

Posts: 1706
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Piwin

You can switch to other progressions or inversions and still maintain the feel of the original riff if you like, and even do a similar bass part, which might be good if they are still doing the classic steps at the beginning. I really think the classic riff is kinda dated. I'd be surprised to see a modern player playing the old riff, but who knows....I'm sure it could, and often is, souped up appropriately.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

I guess my question would have to be when do you guys consider that the escobilla ends and bulerias begins?
In my mind, if I'm just comping chords it's that I'm already in bulerias. At least that's how I think of it. But I guess technically the escobilla as defined for baile is still going on.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2017 20:30:13
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1800
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Leñador

Is throwing in a bit of pulgar or alzapua a no no?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2017 23:26:26
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Stu

I think it'd have to be some pretty damn specific footwork. The standard dance student escobilla rhythm would be pretty tough to make pulgar/alzapua work, at least I can't picture it. I bet a top notch player could figure it out and make it happen though.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 17 2017 0:02:02
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13409
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to jimand

quote:

ORIGINAL: jimand

quote:

I've always just played the classic escobilla chord progression. E-Bb and back and forth


Like this? :-)




Exactly what I was gonna post!!!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 17 2017 11:31:43
 
Piwin

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Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Mark2

Thanks. I guess I'm more old school than I thought!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 17 2017 12:12:44
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Dudnote

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudnote

Is throwing in a bit of pulgar or alzapua a no no?


Most certainly not and it can highly support building up the tension, but to me that still fits Stuart's "varying the melody and technique depending on the feel of the dance" and the pulgar and alzapua variations i know all follow the standard E>B7 chord progression.

The most simple variation (chord wise) that comes in mind would be to replace the B7 chord for A (i guess that's also the chord Mark2 ment when he recommended Am) after which there are various solutions like returning straight away via B7>E, via A>E>B7>E or ad a chain via F#7>B7 or C>B7.

E7>A/(C>B7)/B7>E
E7>A/A>E>B7>E
E7>A/F#7>B7/B7>E or even E7>A/F#7>B7/G#7>C#m etc.

C>B7 (also mentioned by Mark2) probably can be used in various combinations as wel.

Personally i have never played any of these lines but that's were i would start experimenting. You could even try to sneek in a mineras chord.

You can hear various of these lines in the alegrias Paco de Lucia included in his fabulous Almoraima album. Thats actually quite an unusual alergrias using al the elements of a dance choreography. It starts with an extended tirititran (a novelty at the time) and obviously includes a lovely silencio and dito escobilla. You can follow it in e but it's actually played in c.

The alegrias starts at 14:26, the escobilla at 17:37



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 17 2017 14:49:46
 
Mark2

Posts: 1706
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Piwin

You're old school? My first teacher was born in 1930 and was active in Madrid in the 50's before he moved to San Francisco. I studied with him for about five years so the old stuff is burned in.

A singer told me it's up to each guitarist to determine if they want to update their playing to current styles. I love modern style, but if I could PLAY 60's or 70's style really well, I think I'd be pretty happy......but since I'm a hack, I cop VA stuff, play "jazz" chords, and try to do cool syncopations all the time! :-)

Dudnote, I don't see any reason to limit what technique you'd use in an escobilla. For sure you can play pulgar runs and alzapua things.




quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

Thanks. I guess I'm more old school than I thought!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 17 2017 18:01:48
 
Piwin

Posts: 3404
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Mark2

quote:

You're old school? My first teacher was born in 1930 and was active in Madrid in the 50's before he moved to San Francisco. I studied with him for about five years so the old stuff is burned in.


ok you win!
No I'm not old school, except that I'm still very much attracted to all things Sabicas so when I'm asked to play solo that's often what comes out. And a pretty good chunk of Madrid players are way more contemporary with the funky tunings and the crazy syncopations, so I guess that's kind of why I've been feeling old-schoolish lately.
I tried messing around a bit with that drop B tuning that was apparently all the hype. Except then I found out even with that I'm about a decade behind the latest stuff! (make that 20 years behind if you count Gerardo Nunez, but he was about 10 years ahead of everyone so the math checks out!)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 17 2017 18:25:56
 
Mark2

Posts: 1706
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Piwin

For sure it's pretty tough to keep up with these young whippersnappers. For a while a year or so ago, I was on a Diego del Morao kick. Had a guitar sitting in the living room tuned to one of his crazy tunings and picked up a falseta or two. Love his toque.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 17 2017 19:47:57
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1800
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Erik van Goch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch
You can follow it in e but it's actually played in c.

Great!!! I have to get some escobilla stuff together in C for this Friday - thanks!!!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 17 2017 22:13:51
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1800
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Mark2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2
Dudnote, I don't see any reason to limit what technique you'd use in an escobilla. For sure you can play pulgar runs and alzapua things.

Cool!! I'll test it out and see if the teacher throws me any death looks

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 17 2017 22:20:58
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Dudnote

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudnote

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch
You can follow it in e but it's actually played in c.

Great!!! I have to get some escobilla stuff together in C for this Friday - thanks!!!!


Can't hurt to put it on your repertoire but get yourself some simple variations as well :-).

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 18 2017 14:34:40
 
Stu

Posts: 2057
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Erik van Goch

Good input folks. Thanks for all that. I'll be putting some of it into action
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 20 2017 10:41:45
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1800
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Stu

Just came across this escobilla variation...


This is not escobilla, but there are some nice chord progressions for alegrias


And this is even more off topic - but some nice abanico patterns from Tomas Jimenez for llamada, cierre, ida, subida, remate for bulerias, soleares, tientos y tangos, alegrias.


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 5 2017 0:59:04
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1800
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RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Stu

Two basic variations in C



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 5 2017 3:49:43
 
Stu

Posts: 2057
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Dudnote

Nice one dud note!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 5 2017 6:59:18
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1800
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Alegrias Escobilla (in reply to Stu

This edition of Nuestro Flamenco kicks off with an old school Pepe Martinez alegrias with a good dose of escobilla based falsetas.
http://www.rtve.es/m/alacarta/audios/nuestro-flamenco/nuestro-flamenco-nuevas-generaciones-del-cante-jerez-23-05-17/4032703/?media=rne

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 16 2017 1:48:06
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