Rest stroke in Arpeggio position

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Daniel108

Posts: 20
Joined: Mar. 27 2017

Rest stroke in Arpeggio position

I've recently been trying to practice rest strokes in arpeggio position to emphasize melody. Problem is it feels very awkward....

My thoughts on it so far:

First it feels very different to picado. In picado the whole hand position changes to that of the arpeggio position. So it doesn't make sense to go to picado position and back again to play just one note every now and again.

Second, if I stay in arpeggio position - if I let the first joint move I find I hit more of the finger's flesh and it's easier to play but it also makes my whole hand 'jump'. If I don't move that first joint then my hand remains more stable and the sound is produced more from the fingernail than the flesh, but it's really hard to move that way.

Any advice?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2017 16:43:09

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to Daniel108)

I think this is most common on the a finger as a first strong note in a descending arpegio - sometimes played fractionally after a thumb stroke (e.g. finger making the accent on the beat, thumb playing just slightly before). So perhaps start there - ideally with a simple falsetta that uses that technique.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2017 16:54:44

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudnote
ideally with a simple falsetta that uses that technique.

I just made a real quick video on an uber-classic (Sabicas I think) falsetta that uses rest strokes in arpeggios. Perhaps you already know it - and if you don't you might be the only guitarist here who doesn't

.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 3:25:25

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

I just made a real quick video on an uber-classic (Sabicas I think) falsetta that uses rest strokes in arpeggios. Perhaps you already know it - and if you don't you might be the only guitarist here who doesn't .

In about 1 hours time you should be able to see the video here.
https://youtu.be/bEPK7wLCZJ4

Dude, why do you have a British accent? For some reason, I thought you were a native French speaker...

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 7:01:35

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to rombsix)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix
Dude, why do you have a British accent? For some reason, I thought you were a native French speaker...

Ha-ha!!

No, my French is perfectly 'orrible - my daughter teases me about it all ze time saying stuff like "when you've finished ze Duolingo Spanish course are you going to start ze French one?".

About 6 months ago I was seriously starting to consider switching nationality so I could vote against Marion Le Pen. But I 'ad to drop ze idea when I learnt just how sloooow zey make zat process here. Luckily things in France aren't yet so bad zat I now regret not 'aving been able to do zat in time. Besides, we've got enough nut cases in power back in Old Blighty right now zat it is good to be able to still vote against zeir 'orrible politics.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 7:51:29

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to Dudnote)

hé!! stopeuh making feune of ze franche accent. Ze spanisheuh are very weurst zen ous!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 7:55:14

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to Piwin)

Haha! I go nuts when I hear kids here saying "Spead-aire-Maaan" - I can never resist the chance to go "Non, c'est Spider-Man".

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 8:06:33

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

Spead-aire-Maaan

To this day, i don't know if I'm supposed to say "YouTube" or "youtoube"...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 8:11:26

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to Daniel108)

quote:

In picado the whole hand position changes to that of the arpeggio position.

I think in Encuentro DVD Gerardo Nuñez explains (and demonstrates) they should be using the same "position"

(i think maybe better to think of "relationship" of hand/fingers to strings as that is a more fluid concept than "position")

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 16:08:58

Daniel108

Posts: 20
Joined: Mar. 27 2017

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to mark indigo)

Merci monsieur dudnote. That totally hit the spot, and most tres gentil of you to upload the video!

Mark's comment about hand 'relationship' to strings vs 'position' is intriguing, but not sure I understand the difference between them...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 19:34:37

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to Daniel108)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel108

Merci monsieur dudnote. That totally hit the spot, and most tres gentil of you to upload the video!

You're welcome Daniel. The classical guitar piece Romance ("jeux interdit" in French) can also be played this way.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 20:38:36

athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to Daniel108)

To emphasize a note of an arpegio pattern I like to use the I or M finger, like picado. It's a good exercise for coordination as well.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 20:54:43

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to athrane77)

You got any examples Athrane?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 21:26:07

athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to Daniel108)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 21:32:49

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to Daniel108)

quote:

Mark's comment about hand 'relationship' to strings vs 'position' is intriguing, but not sure I understand the difference between them...

weeeeeell......

"position" is a static concept.

"relationship" is a fluid concept.

The ideas which we have about what we are doing and how we are doing it influence the quality of the results.

if we think about "position" we are more likely to try to hold and fix that "position" and use unnecessary muscular tension to do it.

if we think about "relationship" we are less likely to .

and sure, lots of really good players use the term "position" with no ill-effects, because their interpretation of "position" doesn't involve so much tension....

....but for people who develop problems (rsi, tendonitis, etc) it's often the case that their interpretation of "position" will involve fixing and tension. "relationship" is less likely to be interpreted that way.

So if you took 1000 beginners and taught them all the same thing but told half of them it was called hand "position" and told the other half it was called hand "relationship" I would expect more of the "position" group to develop tension related problems.

No I don't have research data to back this up, but there's an interesting research project waiting for someone there....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2017 16:42:13

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to Daniel108)

quote:

Mark's comment about hand 'relationship' to strings vs 'position' is intriguing, but not sure I understand the difference between them...

just for the record, here is the translation of Gerardo's comments from the book accompanying the DVD;

"What's the best way to position your hands? After all the years I''ve been playing guitar, I still wouldn't venture to tell you how you should hold your hands. Just start! .... You just have to find the way that makes the most sense for you. If, for example, you have to move your forearm when changing from an arpegio to a picado, this movement will make a harmonious dialogue between you and your guitar difficult. ..... You can experiment to find a more natural position."

[NB I left a couple of bits out where he refers to specifics he is demonstrating on screen]

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2017 16:50:35

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Rest stroke in Arpeggio position (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo
weeeeeell......

"position" is a static concept.

"relationship" is a fluid concept.

Really? Does this apply in other areas of life too? Like "Hey Honey, this position is starting to hurt. If we change our relationship things could get a lot more fluid."