Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morote (Triplet)

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Ilir

Posts: 4
Joined: Oct. 10 2016

Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morote (T...

Hi there,

I have started playing guitar/flamenco three years ago. As probably the most of flamenco beginners I was very fascinated by the triple rasgueo resp. by its sound. I started learning it by watching a couple of youtube videos, most of them entitled "flamenco triplet" or what so ever. I consider triplet to be the thumb up, m+a down, thumb down thing.

In the meantime I also learned about the rasgueo abanico which rythmically is the same but its played as all of you know usually with thumb up, a down, i down. But as to me the triplet seemed to be easier back then, I kept playing it the triplet way. Recently I learned where it has its origin:

A few weeks ago I hooked up with this new flamenco teacher and he said that no "serious" flamenco player would use the rasgueo triplet/morote and that it doesnt allow one to use accents and I should focus on the abanico.

At the end it is usful to know both I think. But I really would like to have your thaughts in this regard. Which one do you prefer and why?

Best Regards
Ilir

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2017 7:42:48

Piwin

Posts: 3562
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Ilir)

quote:

he said that no "serious" flamenco player would use the rasgueo triplet/morote

Ridiculous. It's like saying no serious flamenco player would use ami arppegio, only ima. Of course you can use marote. In fact, most of the time (at least in my environment) when people refer to abanico it can very well be a marote. Abanico just means you're doing that "fan" movement with your hand, marote is just a specific way of doing that, but it's not really two different techniques IMO.
Which finger set-up you use depends on what you're going for. For me, marote is good for hiting all the strings, and particularly useful when accompanying dance. Other abanicos make it easier to focus on just one group of strings (say, if you want to bring out the trebles but not so much the bass for example). At least that's how it is for me. Ask your teacher to try to bring out ALL the strings without doing a marote and see if he can.

edit: oh, and welcome to the foro!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2017 9:20:29

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Ilir)

Posted on the nail thread recently. Pay attention at the end

I prefer thumb, index, pinky because I'm better at it than marote.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2017 11:14:17

Piwin

Posts: 3562
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Dudnote)

You've changed techniques then. I distinctly remember you saying that you played marote with your teeth! Why did you change? Was it wearing off your gums maybe?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2017 12:08:12

Morante

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Ilir)

A few weeks ago I hooked up with this new flamenco teacher and he said that no "serious" flamenco player would use the rasgueo triplet/morote and that it doesnt allow one to use accents and I should focus on the abanico.

Change your teacher.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2017 15:27:40

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Ilir)

quote:

A few weeks ago I hooked up with this new flamenco teacher and he said that no "serious" flamenco player would use the rasgueo triplet/morote and that it doesnt allow one to use accents and I should focus on the abanico.

ask them to watch their copies of Encuentro videos again, Tomatito, Chicuelo...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2017 15:42:07

Mark2

Posts: 1872
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Ilir)

I never realized Marote wasn't serious-he sure sounds serious to me.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2017 22:05:30

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Ilir)

Serious flamencos use a pic. :P

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2017 23:00:43

Ilir

Posts: 4
Joined: Oct. 10 2016

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Ilir)

Thank you very much to all you for your thoughts - and for the jokes!

This is confirming the way I use to see this.

Regards!
Ilir

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2017 13:34:23

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin
You've changed techniques then. I distinctly remember you saying that you played marote with your teeth! Why did you change? Was it wearing off your gums maybe?

You remember all the secrets of my most modern toque Piwin!!

I'm still a big fan of the tooth alzapua - even though in dance class I chip teeth quite often. I make emergency fixes with silk wraps, superglue and UV gels. This can slow down class a lot because when drying you have to pull a real crazy grimmace to avoid gluing your jaws together and that can scare some of the younger students. So it's good to still have so more traditional techniques at hand incase the modern stuff pings out a canine or two.

No serious flamenco player today can consider themselves modern without the tooth alzapua and incisor marote.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2017 0:57:17

Piwin

Posts: 3562
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Dudnote)

Everyone thought PdL was revolutionizing flamenco.
Meanwhile the real revolution was silently being brought about by Dudnote and steadily gaining ground.
You have some followers. This guy's not yet using his teeth, but you can tell he's got the chin down, which is a good start:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2017 4:45:24

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Ilir)

I learned the Morote way first, a long time ago. I switched to abanico because I find that it wears the nails less and can be done with either pai or psi (s being the little finger).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2017 19:15:52

jalalkun

Posts: 276
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Cologne, Germany

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Ilir)

I learnt the way Marote did it first aswell, because it's so much easier to just engage the whole wrist than separate fingers. Both can be very useful depending on the situation. But no one ever told me that the Marote Rasgueo was in any way not serious. In fact, I believe if you wanna make really serious loud noise the Marote Rasgueo is THE way to go.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2017 6:05:22

Ilir

Posts: 4
Joined: Oct. 10 2016

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Piwin)

LOL Piwin

Dont mean to disrespect the player in the video, but what the heck is he doing there with his chin?

Regards

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2017 15:34:43

Piwin

Posts: 3562
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Ilir)

Yeah I know he looks ridiculous. But to be fair he does manage to play some stuff that might not be possible otherwise.
Some players like Rafael Rabello would use the backside of the fretting-hand thumb when they were out of fingers (passing over the neck from the bottom, so the opposite of what electric and folk guitarists do). It's pretty cool though when you think about it. They have a particular voicing in their head and they'll shuffle the technique around and even use ridiculous things like their chin just to get that voicing!
And then there's always the infamous nose harmonic (right before 2:00)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 9 2017 16:09:05

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Rasgueo abanico vs Rasgueo Morot... (in reply to Ilir)

Marote is certainly an over used and abused technique by flamenco students, particularly outside of spain. I don't shy away from teaching it, however I make it clear to students that there are reasons to use certain techniques vs others having to do with the already mentioned chord voicings, and also tempo and dynamics. Simply put both techniques p-a-i and marote have versatility but taste will dictate what are the more appropriate applications for one or the other. I also feel that a player can get away with avoiding doing Marote technique ever, but forever avoiding the p-a-i might leave something to be desired about the players personal style. Hence my first sentence above.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2017 15:10:27