Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Bulerias2005)
Daniel, I think the root of it is that it's not working for some of us, and we want to know why. Git-box and I come from an era where there was a strong movement to play "from the knuckle joint." The way that strokes were taught was both demonstrably wrong (from video) and, more speculatively and importantly, a hindrance to developing good technique.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Ricardo)
Hello Friends,
For the past several years I have been fighting tension in my pinky knuckle that hindered my picado. I experimented with many different wrist and pinky positions, but nothing felt easy or gave me any progress. Between concerts I never had enough time to practice any of the "new" ways of playing I was experimenting with. Last year I decided to work on keeping the right side of my palm free and unaffected by the movements of index and middle fingers. This took some really slow playing and concentration on freedom in the palm. It only took 2 weeks for me to feel totally comfortable playing scales in this way. All of a sudden all the drama was gone and my picado was stable, punchy and fast with almost zero effort. I couldn't even tell what muscles were responsible for plucking because I didn't feel it in my forearm and never fatigued.
I noticed that I was pressing less into the string and pulling more towards the resting string. My last knuckles seemed to naturally stiffen more than before limiting collapse. I saw my large knuckles lifting higher towards my shoulder and my fingers curling more. I also observed my knuckles spreading a bit and my pinky moving out slightly.
I wanted to capture this way of playing by analyzing it. That was a huge mistake on my part. The more I thought about checking all these boxes the more tense I got and the more effort it took to play. By December I began missing easy scales. I lost my control and felt very uncomfortable playing picado. Clearly, something was very wrong.
Well, I think I found the solution by now. In trying to recreate the position and finger movements I was getting when my picado was at its peak, I somehow forgot about what prompted all these: being relaxed. It's as if you tried to walk freely by concentrating on your legs' movements. It won't work well.
So here is my advice those who are interested: produce the sound you want with the least possible effort while relaxing the rest of the fingers and the palm. Listen for the sound you want and concentrate on the feeling of your nail slipping off the string effortlessly. Let your brain naturally work out the actual mechanics of movements. Don't confuse yourself by overthinking it. You just concentrate on result.
These are the steps to take:
1. Find a hand position where you can reach the intended string comfortably and securely. You should also be able to step on the adjacent strings without having to modify your hand position. Make sure there is no effort and no tension going to any of the 3 strings.
2. Place the corner of your fingertip and the nail on the playing string. Keep the knuckles relaxed.
3. Pluck the string with the least amount of effort. Try to produce a punchy, powerful sound without tensing any muscles at all. The fingertip just moves and slips off the string by itself with zero effort. Your palm, knuckles and other fingers are as relaxed as possible.
4. Quickly place the next finger on the string and repeat the process. Try to already move the next finger in position at the same time you pluck with the previous one. Always touch the string with the same corner of your fingertip, so it makes contact with the nail as well.
Hope this helps. I am open to posting a video as well if needed.
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
Ok so here it is. I realize the thing I forgot to mention that was important....in the middle of the vid I do a run ABCDEDCBA etc...when I do the reverse right hand fingering starting with M finger, I point out the collapse of M tip joint on the low note A, but forgot to point out when M finger plays E string open, it does NOT collapse which was important.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Grisha)
Thanks, sounds a lot like me in my best seconds although i never really mastered picado :-) Can i assume you play with extremely short nails in this setup as well ? (at the time i had to remove the overnight grow of my nail on a daily base in order not to get stucked into the strings, if i hooked them on a string the nail was not visible behind the string). If your nails happen to be longer how do you prevent them getting stucked in this setup ? A video would indeed be very nice when possible.
regards, Erik
_____________________________
The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Bulerias2005)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bulerias2005
Not to barge into this discussion, but what's with all the dissection (maybe pun intended haha) of the physiology behind picado? It's been demonstrated that many players have different approaches to picado owing to their particular hand physiology, so is it not sufficient to emphasize economy of motion and clear articulation when teaching the technique? All this stuff about specific joints seems like it's just an academic argument that doesn't necessarily have practical weight.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Erik van Goch)
My shortest M finger nail protrudes about 2mm past my fingertip. Others are slightly longer. My fingernail shape is a bit rounder than what Scott Tennant suggests and I roll off the string from the thumb side of the nail towards the peak in the middle.
I found this video that I recorded and uploaded for reasons I can't remember now. This was shot in the first week of the switch-over, so it's not out of the oven yet, but definitely moving in the right direction.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Ricardo)
Ricardo, that was a helpful video explanation. The second time I watched it I noticed the shred porn shirt, and damnit I missed that show last year!
Focusing on mechanics is "nerding out" to some degree, but has its place when learning I think, along with tone, and practicing staccato, which made a YUGE difference.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
Wow, this thread has taken an amazingly positive direction, I'm very grateful to the awesome players for posting videos. It's very informative and helpful.
quote:
Grisha wrote: I noticed that I was pressing less into the string and pulling more towards the resting string. My last knuckles seemed to naturally stiffen more than before limiting collapse. I saw my large knuckles lifting higher towards my shoulder and my fingers curling more. I also observed my knuckles spreading a bit and my pinky moving out slightly.
This above comment is curious to me because it seems to be similar to what I have experienced. (It sounds like what Miguel is saying too, but I'm not positive) Before I injured my hand I was focusing on playing exclusively by flexion of the main knuckle joint (MCP), but at some point it all quit working for me and I developed focal dystonia. I can't prove it, but I believe the trigger that eventually shut down my hand was locking my middle (PIP) and tip(DIP) joints and thinking too much about pushing through the string from the large knuckle. It worked for a time, I was playing well, not as well as you guys, but it worked fine and I finished my guitar degree. But at the end of that, I had to quit for 20+ years. If, as Grisha says here, he is now thinking about pulling into the next resting string and that has made his hand feel more relaxed, it makes sense to me. The reason is because moving the string in that way would mean you're releasing the string by doing a tiny flexion from the middle joint. Of course this doesn't mean you're not first loading the string with power from the main knuckle, I still think that's true for picado and for some classical guitar rest strokes too, but it just means that at the tiny instant when the string is released and allowed to make a sound, that middle joint is flexing towards the palm. I know people disagree, but I've slowed down videos of all the great flamenco and classical guitar players right hands and I always see this exchange of work from the main knuckle getting transferred to the middle knuckle. I know Ricardo plays extremely powerful picado and it looks like there's no middle joint involvement, and maybe it mostly is main knuckle, I'd have to slow it down to see, but I know that for every player I've looked at there is *some* amount of PIP flexion that makes the release of the string easier. I'd bet money that if we took any guitarists right hand and completely put the fingers in a cast so the only thing that can move is the main knuckle joint, their fingers would get stuck on the string and not be able to make a sound. Again, I'm not arguing for the middle joint only camp, but I am making a case that the middle joint is involved more than even great players realize it is.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
I think, every knuckle is involved in playing picado, including middle joint. With all the variables such as string crossings, intensity of attack, tone color, nail shape and size, variation in surface area, texture and tension of the strings, no knuckle can stay rigid and immovable.
On a side note, I have a non-explosive version of Samsung S7 phone and I think it can shoot videos in 240fps. I am thinking of recording a picado video at some point. I just need a few days for my left hand thumb to heal.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Grisha)
I slowed down Grisha's video to 15%.
Here's what I see and people can tell me if they agree or disagree 1. The index finger is showing some amount of whipping movement from the middle joint flexing. There's main knuckle movement to the string, but I believe the middle joint is releasing the string at the moment the main knuckle causes the fingertip to impact with the string. 2. Middle finger shows less movement from middle knuckle but it's still there. Anytime you see the tip joint collapsing, that means the middle joint is flexing. The thing that is responsible for the tip joint bending backwards IS the middle joint (PIP) flexion. So if there's tip joints collapsing there's middle joint flexing. 3. There is a small extension from the main knuckle at the moment the string is being released. That's a sign that the work of the main knuckle is done, the middle and tip joints are taking over and the main knuckle is simultaneously relaxing back. 4. At :50 the rest stroke position on the 6th string is telling because you can see the follow through from middle joint. In physics, the thing that's moving milliseconds after an action (a note sounding in this case) tells us something about what contributed to that event.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to guitbox)
Watching the slowed down video of Grisha, I personally don't see enough information to conclude that the middle joint is flexing. The frame rate is way too slow, i basically see what Ricardo described.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to JasonM)
If you see the tip joint (distal joint) collapsing or bending backwards, then you ARE seeing the middle joint (proximal PIP) joint flexion. You cannot collapse the tip joints with only main knuckle joint (MCP) flexion. High frame rate would be nice, and i'm looking forward to Grisha's video that is higher resolution, but it's not necessary to see what is really happening vs what players think is happening. You can see everything just fine with a good closeup side view video. All that is needed to see the PIP is releasing the string is either some movement from it, or the tip joint collapsing, and all that's required for the second is a single frame showing the tip is collapsed. (see Grisha's quote above about "pulling more towards the resting string", that requires middle joint flexion.)
You can prove it with your own hand: Put your index finger on the 3rd string with its joints all in about their midrange position. Hold the middle joint from moving with your other hand and try to collapse the tip joint from just arm movement perpendicular to the soundboard. Then try the same with only main knuckle joint flexion, also approximately perpendicular to the soundbard. Then hold the MCP from moving and try to collapse the tip with just middle joint flexion. Of the three cases, only the 3rd one will collapse the tip joint, because the middle joint is the only one that moves the finger more or less parallel to the soundboard.
It's not as simple as just the main knuckle being responsible for the pluck or just the middle joint being responsible for the pluck. It's a complex exchange with one joint handing the work off to the next. It's like a "tap and scratch" or "hammer and pull". Both joints are very important and you can't pluck with just one or the other. For some very heavy picado playing, the hammer appears to be doing the most work and the pull appears almost non-existent, but it's still there. The other extreme would be some very bright and fast arpeggio playing where the movement of the hammer is very light, more of a tap, but then the pull is much stronger. Add in tip joints collapsing and we have another variable where sometimes the tip joint itself may contribute some flexing at the moment the string is released. It's a very complex sequence of events that is highly refined in a great player's hand. Actually, in that sense, I think great players sell themselves short by implying this highly refined movement is just coming from one joint, it's not.
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to guitbox)
quote:
You cannot collapse the tip joints with only main knuckle joint (MCP) flexion. High frame rate would be nice, and i'm looking forward to Grisha's video that is higher resolution, but it's not necessary to see what is really happening vs what players think is happening. You can see everything just fine with a good closeup side view video. All that is needed to see the PIP is releasing the string is either some movement from it, or the tip joint collapsing,
But this is EXACTLY what I demonstrated in my video. That the tip joint may collapse from pulling the entire arm up, by pulling from PIP, OR from pushing down with MCP. I even made a point to explain that the feeling of pulling PIP vs pushing MCP are quite different, though they appear, even from side view quite similar. SIMILAR looking, but you can still see a difference I hope.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
But this is EXACTLY what I demonstrated in my video. That the tip joint may collapse from pulling the entire arm up, by pulling from PIP, OR from pushing down with MCP. I even made a point to explain that the feeling of pulling PIP vs pushing MCP are quite different, though they appear, even from side view quite similar. SIMILAR looking, but you can still see a difference I hope.
I agree with you that DIP can collapse from pulling the entire arm up or from pulling PIP, but I disagree that it collapses from MCP pushing. Pulling up with the arm may be something that can happen for a single note such as string crossing, but it's irrelevant to the argument for repeated notes on one string. It might seem like MCP is capable of collapsing the tip joint, but it's PIP that's responsible for that. The MCP flexion, of course, assists in holding the DIP in this spring-loaded position after PIP flexions.
Actually, I think all the videos of you (and everyone with a successful apoyando for that matter) show that whether it's free strokes or rest strokes, it's much more complex a movement than just knuckle joint or just middle joint. It's an exchange of one and then the other. It's a hammer and then a pull, you can't have a successful stroke of any kind without both elements. With collapsing tip joints, I believe there is an additional element where the tip joint flexion is just as responsible for releasing the string as the PIP is. So, with collapsed tip joints, the firing order is MCP then PIP then DIP.
BTW, if you're upset about me using your video, I'll gladly delete it, just let me know. I thought the lighting was better than the one you posted, so it illustrated my point more clearly. Obviously you think it disproves move point, but it seems that we're on opposite sides of an argument and will never see eye to eye.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to guitbox)
Check out this video of Pepe Romero doing rest stroke alternation. I understand the belief that MCP is responsible for more than it really is. Obviously the MCP flexion is the first impulse that happens from the brain to the fingers, it's very important, but once it brings the finger to and holds the string, PIP collapses the DIP, the job of MCP is done. Then the DIP/PIP flexion to sound the note while the MCP releases. This is what I see Pepe doing. He even describes the DIP collapsing and recovering in his method La Guitara.
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
Guitbox, I don't see how any of these videos prove your point. As far as I can tell, Ricardo may be right that the motion is provided by the knuckle joint and the tip joint is responsible for the release. I feel that I can release my tip joint independently of whether my middle joint is involved.
I also think it's misleading to say that the knuckle joint passes on to the middle joint, because pressure continues to be applied by the knuckle joint the whole time.
My investigations and Ricardo's input have led me to modify my thinking from the video that started this thread. Now I feel that the knuckle joint brings the finger into position, pushes down on the string, and then the tip joint releases. As a result, the middle joint moves, but it's due to a release of potential energy stored in the string from the original push. At least, this is how it feels.
It is possible that there is more than one way to use the hand for these strokes.
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
Guitbox, I don't see how any of these videos prove your point. As far as I can tell, Ricardo may be right that the motion is provided by the knuckle joint and the tip joint is responsible for the release. I feel that I can release my tip joint independently of whether my middle joint is involved.
I also think it's misleading to say that the knuckle joint passes on to the middle joint, because pressure continues to be applied by the knuckle joint the whole time.
My investigations and Ricardo's input have led me to modify my thinking from the video that started this thread. Now I feel that the knuckle joint brings the finger into position, pushes down on the string, and then the tip joint releases. As a result, the middle joint moves, but it's due to a release of potential energy stored in the string from the original push. At least, this is how it feels.
It is possible that there is more than one way to use the hand for these strokes.
Wow! After 10,0097 posts I have finally A). Got some one to "modify their thinking", and B). Had someone slow down my playing and analyze it!!!! This is a historic day!
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to ToddK)
quote:
ORIGINAL: ToddK
So Guitbox, show us the results of all your brilliant research. You must be ripping through scales at warp 6.
I've asked him twice before to show his progress - in the delcamp thread which he started almost 4 years ago - but he just ignores the requests; when others also ask he either ignores or sometimes deflects that the thread is about concert level virtuosos which he is not :-) I would be amazed if he posts a video even as he asks others to do that for him.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
quote:
It is possible that there is more than one way to use the hand for these strokes.
yes, I believe there are a number ways that the fingers can work in the 'flat hand' method. But just making your hand flat and then playing and trying to analyse which knuckles are directing the movement is going the wrong way. You first decide how you want to direct the movement and then practice it. And then, after about a year or so of hard practice, that is how you will start to play. So I believe that you can use the flat hand with the motion directed mainly from the large knuckle with a small contribution from the middle knuckle. And vice versa. And be aware that watching videos can be misleading. For one thing the movements for the middle knuckle movement are small (just from resting on one string to resting on the next one), another point is that the large knuckle is always involved (whatever way you play) in picking up the finger to reposition it back on the string. So the middle knuckle player is going to look very similar to the large knuckle player. The only way to really know is to ask someone how they are mainly directing the movement.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
quote:
Guitbox, I don't see how any of these videos prove your point. As far as I can tell, Ricardo may be right that the motion is provided by the knuckle joint and the tip joint is responsible for the release. I feel that I can release my tip joint independently of whether my middle joint is involved.
I also think it's misleading to say that the knuckle joint passes on to the middle joint, because pressure continues to be applied by the knuckle joint the whole time.
My investigations and Ricardo's input have led me to modify my thinking from the video that started this thread. Now I feel that the knuckle joint brings the finger into position, pushes down on the string, and then the tip joint releases. As a result, the middle joint moves, but it's due to a release of potential energy stored in the string from the original push. At least, this is how it feels.
It is possible that there is more than one way to use the hand for these strokes.
I'm just studying the techniques of great players in the videos and describing what I see, because sometimes it looks very different than what they describe. I've heard all the arguments about how that won't work or the videos are not high enough resolution, yadda yadda. I'll never be convinced by anyone, no matter how great a player they are, that seeing is not believing. More likely, they feel or sense something is one way, but what they feel is different than what is really going on. Of course they are still great players, just the descriptions are not accurate. That said, I'm always willing to be wrong and I'm just learning this stuff like you. I did say in a previous post that I thought the tip joint might very well be the ultimate precision joint that does the final release of the note. I know I made that comment on your youtube video and at the delcamp forum. Also, I may have described it as an exchange from 1. MCP flexion to 2. PIP flexion to 3. DIP flexion with the PIP being responsible for collapsing of DIP if it collapses, but there is overlap for sure. You're right that "exchange" is a bad word, I'm going to change that to "firing order" which doesn't imply the effort from one joint is stopped. I did refine that statement by saying if the DIP is collapsed then obviously the MCP and PIP are still holding pressure on the string until the string is sounded. I suspect it's the DIP that is the final thing that releases the string at the moment we hear the sound, but the PIP then continues to follow through. I don't see the MCP following through at that moment in the videos, I see it relaxing and returning for the next pluck. Perhaps it's true that the tip joint is ultimately the thing that releases the string, but the PIP is also assisting it. Look at all the videos posted so far and notice how everyone extends the index finger from the middle joint very far, sometimes to almost full extension and then moves it back in to midrange position. If their middle joint isn't contributing to the pluck, then they sure move it a lot for no reason.
If you look at someone in rest stroke position playing on the 6th string, you'll see there's follow through from the PIP along with the DIP doing a slight flexion at the moment of pluck. Check out the Pepe Romero video I posted. I agree with what Grisha said about "release towards the resting string". There's also an online lesson with classical guitarist Kevin Gallagher saying that very thing for collapsing tip rest strokes. I know there are some really heavy sounding picado players who push down very hard and seem to be following through from MCP, but it seems too resistant and tense on the hands. It's impressive on some level, but I don't want to play like that and risk injury. (I'm not saying anyone here is teaching to do this, but there are people who teach this, trust me) I don't hear all flamenco guitarists using that much downward force with their picado, so there's definitely room for different ways. I still believe the release has some component of PIP/DIP flexion and of course those components are variable. I also believe there's effort from MCP in front of and on the string, no doubt. I just don't think pushing down through the string is the right thing to do (I'm talking the release here), it's not what I see in the videos, and there are great players describing the release as pulling towards the adjacent string. Is that pulling towards the adjacent string *just* DIP flexion? Maybe it is, but it seems more likely to me that it's a combination of DIP/PIP.
This teacher talks talks about the DIP being the precision joint, which seems good, but gives little attention to the middle joint (calling it the unifying joint, WTH does that even mean?) His tone is too harsh for me, his tips are rigid, and he IS releasing the string with some PIP movement. I tend to agree with the folks who say it's not about one joint or the other, it's about all the joints. The intensity or effort from the joints is variable, but the firing order is likely fixed.
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Ricardo)
Most people's minds are pretty rigid by 20 or so, I think. Maybe that's why most players' technical development stalls out around that time. Of course I always carefully consider any technical advice you give, Ricardo!
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to guitbox)
Guitbox, I am all for checking out videos. I think as far as picado goes, the actual movement of the middle joint still could be examined further than what we've seen here. It would be hard to determine whether that movement is active and muscular or actually a passive result of movement from the knuckle joint.
Another good use for video is to examine whether anyone actually plays with fixed tips. My gut tells me that almost every good player uses the tip to control the fine points of rhythm and tone. There is a certain idea or tradition of "stone hand" players with a harsh sound--I wonder if these are guys who actually just freeze their tips and are done with it. On the other hand, lots of classical guitarists believe they keep their tips absolutely firm. I would be interested to see if they do indeed do this.
Personally, I am much more interested in how to get an effective stroke and how to reform a dysfunctional one. Examining videos is a useful starting point if it leads to vanquishing erroneous ideas ("mind-forged manacles") that are holding one back.
The idea that the middle joint should move, for example, is a helpful one I am working with. But the next step is how to control the movement. Video analysis does not help here. The human body is controlled by sensation, metaphor, analogy--as difficult as it is for the engineer/technical mindset to accept. We can survey how good players perceive their strokes and try to come up with our own approximation.
Ricardo says it feels like pushing down, not pulling. Most great players say their hand feels very relaxed and one should aim for complete relaxation. Eduardo Fernandez wrote a whole book attempting to help players get in touch with their body and the sensations of their body, probably as a corrective to the dysfunctional approach of attempting to control individual joints and play guitar by sight instead of by feeling/sound.
These are examples of the sorts of things that can actually help us play better, if pursued with patience and sensitivity.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
Miguel, you are making a great point. Perception is incredibly important. One can learn to move in a certain way slowly, but as things speed up you start to face more and more issues that aren't there at slow tempo. And a mind can only have absolute control of every movement at slow tempos, after which you need to shift gears and rely on sensations.
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
quote:
Another good use for video is to examine whether anyone actually plays with fixed tips. My gut tells me that almost every good player uses the tip to control the fine points of rhythm and tone. There is a certain idea or tradition of "stone hand" players with a harsh sound--I wonder if these are guys who actually just freeze their tips and are done with it. On the other hand, lots of classical guitarists believe they keep their tips absolutely firm. I would be interested to see if they do indeed do this.
Yes, that's one good example of players who think they are doing one thing and they actually are not. I just assumed years ago that if a player told me he/she was keeping the tips firm that I could believe them. Now I investigate further and confirm it with my own eyes and I don't take collapsing or not collapsing as if one is right and the other is wrong. That whole delcamp slow motion concert guitarist thread has tons of videos with players allowing the tip joints to bend backwards even for free strokes.--it's widespread. I've discovered many players who always let the m finger bend backwards some, probably unconsciously to equalize the finger lengths. For rest stroke, it's clear to me that everyone is letting the DIP bend backwards (shock absorb) most all of the time.
Is it only useful to learn from what a player teaches and ignore what you see them doing or is it useful to learn from taking both things into account? I just prefer to take everything into account. I think people would be surprised to know that I agree with most of what Ricardo said in his video lesson on picado. I really only differ with him when he says that it's the big knuckle that pushes through the string--which I interpret as the big knuckle is responsible for releasing the string. If that's not the case, correct me. No one has truly addressed my point of view that there is a firing order to the joints and that, yes, the big knuckle is the power joint and is hugely important, but that you need the other two joints (one or the other or both) to release the string and the initial energy imparted to it from the big knuckle. People seem to want to categorize everyone into either middle joint people or big knuckle people, so we get arguments about something no one is even arguing about. Miguel, your video and none of my points have argued that the middle joint is responsible solely for the pluck or the main energy...only the release.
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
RE: The middle joint in picado (in reply to guitbox)
Yeah, Guitbox, AFAIK we're in agreement on the idea of the firing order.
I'm operating on the idea that the middle joint moves upon release. At least it feels better to me, smoother and easier through the string--when I let it do that. I don't know how much of that motion is active or passive. The way I'm practicing now, it _feels_ passive and that the force is all coming from the knuckle joint. I suspect that the story is more complex than that and probably involves all the joints.
As far as the categorization problem, yes, it seems to be the case that people like to do that, reducing complexity to simple categories to avoid having to deal with ambiguity. Black and white, awesome flamenco player and girly classical player, Democrat and Republican, Capitalist and Communist, etc.
Printable Version
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread