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RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembrance of Eugene Clark   You are logged in as Guest
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estebanana

 

Posts: 6753
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to Escribano

quote:

I think my blanca was one of the first to use some of Anders' firewood for the rosette and knowing how important olive wood is to one's home in Granada, it bears more than one aspect of beauty for me as perhaps, all rosettes should in their own way. Like your homage.


The Olive wood has a deeper meaning and a connection to region, it has face value beauty, but Anders choose it because it has more meaning than a commercially prepared rosette. I think Gene would have liked that individual side of making in spirit. Really he said he wanted to see people make their own rosettes, and he preferred that Spanish work was in keeping with the mainline of tradition of making a rosette with a connection to traditional method.

He came down on the side of making it yourself rather than buying a rosette premade. In person, off the record, his comments about other makers who used premade rosettes were, well honestly rather scathing.

Unraveling or unpacking the point of view of an iconoclastic personality is delicate business and probably not in the interests of the Foro. And my intension was not to make that the point of my posts, but to pepper the content of rosette making with some hot comments to add an accent to the conversation. The intent I had in mind was to restate in my own way why making a rosette by hand is a good idea and to provide the Foro with one "recipe" a beginner maker could use as a reference to make a rosette. I wanted a thread where the topic could be added to by everyone who knows how to make rosettes, after I set it up with half dozen or so posts with content about rose making.

It seems like people moved in with comments before that could happen and now I am no longer with the flow of my original intent. If anyone wants to take over the posts with the idea of building a rosette making thread that gives a nod to what they learned via Gene Clark's articles and efforts to preserve rosette making please go forth. Presently I've lost the interest to continue.

The wrybald and somewhat sarcastic comment about the qualities of goat pee from different altitudes having an effect on the bleeding quality of veneer dyes did not go unnoticed, or unappreciated. Frankly I was shocked at such rough language. Please give me trigger warning in advance next time you plan to emotionally scar me with the subject of goat urine as a dye mordant. Indeed the flora goats consume at different altitudes must effect the colorfastness and durability of the dye stuffs when treated with the urine. Of course you may never have thought of this, but Gene gave me the secret formula of rabbit urine, aluminum stearate and dog hair to combat this altitude urine variance effect.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 6:31:56
 
pundi64

Posts: 183
Joined: Jul. 29 2016
From: Thailand

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

You estebannana, you seem like a real outspoken **** at times, it has to be your way or no way ,
there are other people in this forum who read the crap, (most of it) why don't you get off your stage and relax a little bit
or maybe at least try.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 7:25:06
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 6753
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RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to pundi64

Ok, sure ...I began this to talk about a specific topic and the topic got thrown out so a certain guy could stick his big head where it don't belong and preach at me about my passed away mentor and friend, who he never even met!

Look I don't care about Blackshear's topics, so I don't go on them. Go look he has several going now, I'm not on any of them.

Naff off punk.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 9:42:22
 
benros

 

Posts: 52
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RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

stephen, im really sorry to hear that. I was so delighted, when you started this thread, since eugene clark and his attitude and approach to guitarbuilding made a big impression on me (and i have just read some of his articles in the gal magazine) and coincidentally i stumbled about his article about rosette making just two days before you came up with it. it would have been great for me (and surely many others) to follow you go to the process, but i can understand that you don't want to go on like that.
And to those of you, who have killed this project: why isn't it possible here, just to let something meaningful grow, respect something which somebody is caring about, without discursively colonizing it and harming its skillful sharing intention, by carelessly spitting out the "****" (frankfurt 2005) that randomly shows up at your affected mindstreams?
really, shame on you!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 9:57:27
 
Piwin

Posts: 1452
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
From: the land of Piwins

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

Well, I'd understand why you wouldn't want to continue given what has happened here.
I feel like having witnessed an interrupted eulogy. To those who interrupted: for shame.
I for one was reading and indeed interested. If ever you can cut through the noise and tinnitus and find a way back to the original intent of your thread, I'll continue reading.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 10:11:57
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2524
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

Stephen,

I very much enjoyed and appreciated reading your thoughts on this thread and, in particular, your homage to Eugene Clark. Your respect and deep friendship for him came through in spades, and I consider it a damned shame that the self-absorbed, self-referential interloper who condemned your take on Clark because it did not comport with his disturbed this thread. And he had the gall and chutzpah to want to involve the Forum's administrator. ("What say you, Moderator?") We have just witnessed a class act (your homage to Clark) being thrown off-center by a total lack of class. But yours still comes through and shines. Thanks.

Bill

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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 11:35:19
 
Joan Maher

 

Posts: 168
Joined: Dec. 3 2013
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

Continue building your design Stephen as we are looking forward to the outcome! (don't cut off your nose to spite your face ;) and if you make a few of them I'll purchase one so you can donate to appropriate cause.

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Gracias!


Joan Josep Maher
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 11:35:32
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 565
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

The wrybald and somewhat sarcastic comment about the qualities of goat pee from different altitudes


I regretted making that post as it dawned on me how much this personal tribute meant to you. It was somewhat insensitive and I apologise.

I was I suppose over-excited by the bucket of camel .....!

I am a great fan of the handmade rosette and what it signifies. I feel the same way as you about Ander's rosettes and I seem to remember comparing your use of colour with the Scottish colourists.

The first of the rosettes is on a guitar that I own. It is certainly handmade and deliciously irregular in parts. I had a lot of advice about what I should do about the stain - sandpaper it to death, bleach it or even replace (like Paco did with his iconic guitar) - I rejected them all and opted for a little FP over the top. The stain is a mark that reminds me that since 1978 this guitar was worth playing, didn't spend years forgotten under a bed and wasn't passed from hand to hand by people who never bothered to learn how to play it. I am equally attached to sweat stains and cejilla pressure marks!

I am waiting for the hearts and arrows of outrageous fortune.

Rob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 11:41:50
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 6753
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to benros

quote:

stephen, im really sorry to hear that. I was so delighted, when you started this thread, since eugene clark and his attitude and approach to guitarbuilding made a big impression on me (and i have just read some of his articles in the gal magazine) and coincidentally i stumbled about his article about rosette making just two days before you came up with it. it would have been great for me (and surely many others) to follow you go to the process, but i can understand that you don't want to go on like that.


I think if you study those two articles carefully you'll get a lot out of them. And I'll be happy to answer any questions if I can clear up any thing that may linger.

During the three or four years leading up to those articles being written Gene and I had a lot of conversations and in person tutorials about rosette making, when I read those articles it was like getting a set of notes to his in person discourse. So I still have copies of the GAL with his article and I reread it the other day just to remember how he said things. To my knowledge in English in 2001-2002 when in published it was probably the most comprehensive document on Spanish rosette making. Perhaps in any language. It still stands as one of the essential documents of pedagogy in the topic. It is comprehensive and even if you don't agree or wander from it later the core of the knowledge can form a base to use.

I'm very happy he has influenced your building. I was very lucky to have been in the right place at the right time to receive and keep alive the things he passed onto me. There are hundreds of makers now keeping it alive due to the internet so I think the tradition will go on longer, but Gene's work on the subject of rosettes made an in depth study of the structure of the early 20th classic designs and transmitted them in a way that you and I can make them if we apply ourselves. This continues to be very exciting to me because I can branch out and make variations on rosettes based on what he transmitted and then return to the basics of the Esteso, Manuel Ramirez, Santos rosettes and make more straight ahead versions of those rosettes. And what he said to encourage future makers was that once you have internalized that base of knowledge and command it, you can do anything and it will be an extension of the Spanish Tradition with your own mark on it.

Don't misunderstand what he had in mind, he was not stuck on one way of making, but what the wanted was for makers to be liberated to go in their own style extension of Spanish work by way of deep discipline and being aware of the basic structures. He worked on that article with Jonathan Petersen to outline how to read the structure of the that era of rosette making. He stated these rosette patterns are compositions and here's how I read them visually and interpret them, he shows a great way to think about it. Before that I can't think of anyone who broke it down so clearly and succinctly. I'll see if I can muster doing this over, but emotionally this is draining to put work into creating a picture of someone who I consider a salty old poet - my view point is mt view point; what is emotionally draining is to needlessly defend and contest his legacy and what it means to me. I should not have to do that.

Carry on with your rosette making!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 12:09:39
 
estebanana

 

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Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to RobJe

quote:

I regretted making that post as it dawned on me how much this personal tribute meant to you. It was somewhat insensitive and I apologise. I was I suppose over-excited by the bucket of camel .....!


I was genuinely amused and waiting to reintroduce the topic in a comical way later...no worries.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 12:26:28
 
Tom Blackshear

 

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 21 2017 18:10:00
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 14:53:50
 
Joan Maher

 

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Joined: Dec. 3 2013
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

These are very nice designs Stephen...



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Gracias!


Joan Josep Maher
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 16:17:42
 
estebanana

 

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Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to Tom Blackshear

quote:

Please don't be offended, as I meant no harm. I've always tried to lift you up in your art.


The helping hand strikes again.

If I were a soaring glider, you would be a gushing downdraft.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2017 3:28:52
 
Anders Eliasson

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RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Which why you should appreciate Anders the dirty liberal who uses hippie soap and hippie olive wood branches to make rosettes. He would as much piss on a pre-made rosette as put it anywhere near a guitar.


No-no, I´m not a diehard radical and I dont pis on anything except trees and bushes. I made a guitar not long ago with a premade russian rosette with red roses. It was a matter of getting an order or not. And money told me to say yes. I could live with it. BUT I prefer something homecooked over premade food.

Back on track. I enjoy the thread and please keep them comming. Lovely pictures. Especially the one with the messy fingers. Yummy, Stephen, the Gluegoat.

And dont get to involved with the spammers posts. Its just a waste of time. Be creative. Thats what is interesting.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2017 10:25:14
 
Tom Blackshear

 

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 21 2017 18:10:27
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2017 14:51:53
 
Leñador

Posts: 4716
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I agree but when a long time friend of mine is related to a religious position that he didn't claim in his last days on this earth,

This just plain never happened period. Not sure where you've been but the last 40 years has secularized the word karma.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2017 15:48:33
 
estebanana

 

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RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

I bypassed the technical details of how I made it and skip right to this shop as I left it in the shop tonight.

I did take photos of some technique stuff for those interested, I'll get to it soon. The mosaic tile turned out a bit dark and dirty because I used a dark maple veneer, not bright enough on the end grain to really pop out the light olive green hearts. The tile does have enough 'graphic information' from the black pattering in the tile so I'm ok with it.

Now the choice to go with a lot of black was to really darken out the space around the mosaic to make it lighter by contrast to a really dark field. The whole thing will have a dark toned palette of color, in the dark some light details. A couple funny details already presented themselves. Tomorrow I'll drop in the edge braid I made up tonight.
To be cont.

And the joy of finding the green button, almost like having some of mothers little helper....



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2017 16:06:53
 
Tom Blackshear

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2017 16:14:56
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1510
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago, specifically 24.5 miles due west.

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to Tom Blackshear

Tom,

Much respect to your art.

That being said, please stop with the Christianity/Karma thing. If you want to go into apologetics and this disproves that etc I'm sure we could have an awesome time in the off topic section or over skype with a few beers and barbecue. Actually, that would be awesome.

We all enjoy a good bit of antagonizing each other but I'd rather see your tiles. I saw a guitar of yours at Bruné's shop a few years back that had an absolutely beautiful rosette. Was sold to a gal from Indiana I think.

Show us the tiles!!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2017 16:26:18
 
Piwin

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From: the land of Piwins

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

Looking good!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2017 16:28:56
 
Tom Blackshear

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2017 16:32:03
 
estebanana

 

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RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

Rules of the Foro-

3. Publish, post, upload, distribute or disseminate any topic, name, material or information that incites discrimination, hate or violence towards one person or a group because of their belonging to a race, a religion or a nation, or that insults the victims of crimes against humanity by contesting the existence of those crimes.

I'm not a Christian and I find the posts concerning me and refuting my personal narrative with a religious argument to be deeply offensive. Using the concept of karma as a metaphor is not a religious statement.

I call for all religious content to be deleted from this topic on the grounds that the religious nature of the posts break Foro rules and are personally offensive.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2017 17:03:25
 
Escribano

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From: England

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

This thread is locked for parties ignoring my request to back down and to stay off each other's threads. I am moderating, not picking a side.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2017 17:49:56
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