Foro Flamenco
Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvir, Philip John Lee and Craig Eros who went ahead of us too soon.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Mosaic tile: Disregard   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1] 2    >   >>
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

Mosaic tile: Disregard 

A few weeks ago I began thinking about making a mosaic rosette tile as a remembrance of Gene Clark, a not enough appreciated American guitar maker who influenced a few generations of builders with his beautiful straight forward Spanish inspired work.

I looked though my notes from the days when I was consorting with Clark and decided to use a pattern which he published in his 2001-2002 articles on rosette making in the GAL publication. I'm going to post the formula or the grid map of the rosette here so anyone can use the pattern if they like.

It might be a good beginning mosaic tile because it is small, ten x nine grids. It takes 63 white strips of veneer and 27 black strips. The pattern is called 'Black and White Hearts with Arrow.' I'm going to make the heart with green because I want to use up the rest of a batch of white lines before I cut into a new bag of veneer which is slightly a different kind of white. So in the spirit of improvising and staying true to the art that Gene taught, I'm going to make Black and Green hearts with Arrow as an homage to Gene.

I'll provide the grid pattern and the basic essentials you might want to know if you are new to making mosaic tile. If you are an old hand at it, feel free to steal.

"Beginners copy the masters, masters steal from each other."

Anon

I stand that in quotes, but I don't know who spoke the words first. At some point in the history of the world someone must have said it. There is also some cyclical wisdom - Masters often say when they attain mastery, they feel like a beginner. It's really difficult to tell where mastery begins and beginning ends.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 15 2017 2:34:01
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

Here is the grid formula- w -white b - black
w w w w w b b w w w
w b b b w w b w w w
b w w w b w w b w w
b w w w w b w w b w
w b w w w w b w w b
b w w w w b w w b w
b w w w b w w b w w
w b b b w w b w w w
w w w w w b b w w w


Think of it as tab for a falseta for a guitar maker - I'll let the image develop without showing it ahead of time. If you ever try to do a mosaic tile, this pattern is ready to go. *I'll try to make a more neat later.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 15 2017 5:23:07
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

Stripping off veneer lines with a metal rule and #11 scalpel.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 15 2017 12:37:36
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

Collating the strips to the order of the grid pattern.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 15 2017 12:41:34
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

What do you use for the green dye?

_____________________________

[signature][/signature]
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 15 2017 14:05:06
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

Camel piss set in a barrel for 18 months.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 15 2017 16:01:35
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Here is the grid formula- w -white b - black
w w w w w b b w w w
w b b b w w b w w w
b w w w b w w b w w
b w w w w b w w b w
w b w w w w b w w b
b w w w w b w w b w
b w w w b w w b w w
w b b b w w b w w w
w w w w w b b w w w

Think of it as tab for a falseta for a guitar maker - I'll let the image develop without showing it ahead of time. If you ever try to do a mosaic tile, this pattern is ready to go. *I'll try to make a more neat later.


Maybe I should start with knitting it first??? Would look great on a woolen sweater me thinks
Jokes aside, great thread

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 6:10:45
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 728
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Camel piss set in a barrel for 18 months.


Seriously – it important to bring old friends and mentors to mind occasionally and no better way than by actions that span a period of time. There is plenty of less rewarding stuff beating against our brains.

Less seriously - most readers will not realise that camels pee once every 5 days approximately. LMI don’t have this stuff bottled yet so picture the dedicated luthier following with a bucket. Before everyone copies I have a warning based on what is known as the “Cordoba migration syndrome.” Have you noticed how the dyes in Reyes and Miguel Rodriguez guitars migrate making an ugly stain? These dyes are made from goat droppings, the different colours coming from animals browsing at different heights on the Sierra Morena.

Rob



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 13:20:44
 
Echi

 

Posts: 974
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

I never understood why some builders don't let the golpeador prolonging to cover the rosette...it's so obvious.
The first rosette is the rosette I like the most. The old Reyes rosettes were very nice in my opinion.
I understood from what I read in R. Bruné's website that the last rosettes used by Reyes were made in Japan.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 13:31:35
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 21 2017 17:13:05
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 15:38:37
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

One hump or two? Got to make sure you've got your camels correct

_____________________________

[signature][/signature]
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 16:41:51
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

Fukk Japanese rosettes.

Just Fukkkkk them, don't even talk about them on my thread about Gene.

Sell the premade rosettes elsewhere.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 20:37:30
 
Piwin

Posts: 3394
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

Perhaps just a modest remembrance but still a very nice initiative.
Thanks for sharing.

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 22:13:16
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to Piwin

quote:

Perhaps just a modest remembrance but still a very nice initiative.
Thanks for sharing.


You're welcome. When I get through being Chris Pistofferson after waking up to miserable japanese rosettes I'll continue.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 22:24:49
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 21 2017 17:13:28
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 22:41:08
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Fukk Japanese rosettes.

Just Fukkkkk them, don't even talk about them on my thread about Gene.

Sell the premade rosettes elsewhere.


I agree. Make your own threads about your ugly Japaneese, Korean, Russian, whatever mass produced rosettes that you put into your handmade guitars.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2017 5:59:22
 
Joan Maher

 

Posts: 177
Joined: Dec. 3 2013
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Eugene Clark 


Here's a nice detail of one of his rosettes Stephen, to make you forget about Jap ones..



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Gracias!


Joan Josep Maher
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2017 7:52:27
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

Thank you. That one is a beauty. Hand died color.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2017 8:05:54
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

After the lines are cut an organized, glue is spread on them and between them. I've tried brushes dragging...but always seem to come back to fingers. It's good for you to get messy.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2017 1:12:39
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

Then press the ribbon of gluey veneer into a corner- I make a corner by stacking two pieces of wood up, then clear put packing tape to mask the corner from glue sticking to it. Really just press the stack not the corner an use a knife to lift it out and set it aside to dry.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2017 1:16:30
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

All those ribbons of veneer were drawn through this little gem. The purfling line sizer. It's a plane iron held vertically against a fence, which is a block of hard oak. the blade slides and narrows the gap between the cutting edge and the fence; it can be adjusted to take a shaving well under .020" The veneer I use for rosettes is usually between .020 and .015" Which is like two business cards thick or less.

Eugene taught me to take this tool, I've had it for that many years. He also gave me a fret hammer upon which he copiously French polished the plain handle until it looked like glass. I grabbed the hammer some years ago with some red paint on my hand and got the handle all messy. Tomorrow I'll see where the stupid hammer is and see if I ever cleaned it up. I felt kind of bad I got the handle dirty, but then again French polishing hammer handles is fairly obsessive compulsive. I probably did him some kind of karmic favor by undoing the compulsion.

He was a very funny guy, not funny as in good at telling jokes, but funny at his completeness of learning or doing a task. Once he cornered me in the shop and went on a tangent about the Federalist Papers, an obscure US political governmental document most people have never read. Gene was fairly conservative, he took the rant into the realm of guitar making, he did that more than once. Even before the US was so obviously and politically polarized between right and left he divided guitar makers into a liberal and conservative wing. The steel string guitar makers who used burl wood rosettes and did cutaways and tarted up the binding and purfling with blingy garish colors he called Liberals, dirty liberal guitar makers. A rant he intoned from time to time was that the sightless liberal American steel string builders were corrupting the understanding of the Spanish guitar and committed the heresy of trying to build Spanish classical guitars with the incorporation of liberal steel string order of assembly, and the addition of tasteless bling elements. The Spanish guitar he maintained was regal and the Americanos were trying to gringofy the royal line.

Once he ended one of these rants with the regret that "In the revolution that is coming to this country I will feel bad, I will have to shoot my all liberal guitar maker friends in Berkeley." Then he laughed because he knew he was not going to really kill anyone, but the metaphor was not lost on me. Gene was an iconoclast in a world of liberal weenies. Politically I found Gene rather abhorrent, but not unreasonable in terms of talking. He was not dumb in that he knew he was an iconoclast and understood how much trouble iconoclasm can cause a creative person. Gene "suffered from integrity" as my sculpture teacher Richard Berger liked to say of those for whom artistic conscience was bother some and a painful thing to challenge. Some people have radical integrity at an art and some don't. Richard and Gene both had it in them as big as a blue whale. They are both gone too, which is no fun for me because the numbers of those with whom you can commiserate dwindles.

Which why you should appreciate Anders the dirty liberal who uses hippie soap and hippie olive wood branches to make rosettes. He would as much piss on a pre-made rosette as put it anywhere near a guitar.








Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2017 14:57:11
 
Escribano

Posts: 6322
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Which why you should appreciate Anders the dirty liberal who uses hippie soap and hippie olive wood branches to make rosettes.


I think my blanca was one of the first to use some of Anders' firewood for the rosette and knowing how important olive wood is to one's home in Granada, it bears more than one aspect of beauty for me as perhaps, all rosettes should in their own way. Like your homage.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2017 16:37:01
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 21 2017 17:14:52
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2017 17:14:56
 
Escribano

Posts: 6322
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to Tom Blackshear

quote:

What say you, Mr. Moderator?


With respect, it works so much better when you stay out of each other's threads.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2017 17:32:13
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 21 2017 17:15:52
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2017 17:42:04
 
Escribano

Posts: 6322
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to Tom Blackshear

quote:

Thank you for your opinion, as this gives me the right to express my feelings however I want on my threads



As long as you follow our guidelines and don't expect everyone to agree with you

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2017 17:46:27
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 21 2017 17:16:20
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2017 18:17:42
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to Tom Blackshear

quote:



I don't favor this, as Eugene and I were of the same spiritual belief in Christ as Lord and Savior. Eugene from a pure and simple faith and me from a Messianic Jewish POV for the past 40 years, But we were taught to love all men regardless of their religion.

In other words I can love you regardless of your personal remarks, but I would find it more constructive if you would refrain from what I feel is out of bounds for this list, so let the moderator be the judge here.

What say you, Mr. Moderator?

I grew up in the retail business where we didn't talk about politics, religion, or the old man, unless it was a private matter, and then it was hard to say that it did much good to win friends and influence people.

So perhaps Stephen might want to adjust his idea of Eugene's conservatism, which was ultra conservative with much insight in today's liberal thought process, and change his tone, no pun intended.

And it is important to realize that this doesn't give us poetic license to hide our inner thoughts, other than to be fair with our information.

There is no lovelier craft/pursuit than building guitars, imho


Looky Tomasito,

If you read one of the four or five articles Gene wrote over the years for the GAL publication you will see that Gene himself uses the concept of karma in a metaphorical way in his own thinking and his own way of explaining how he does things. Using a metaphor that describes a karmic transaction does not in any negative way encroach upon the fact that Gene's father was a minister and that he came from a straight forward Christian background. Gene also used a lot of 1960's slang and idiomatic language from that era because he was deep in the NY and CA music scenes where that language was used. It was not unusual hear Gene himself use the word 'karma' in some context, or to say "Wow that is cool baby!" His vocabulary and the way he framed narrative owes something to 60's culture and language.

The other fact I might point out here is that I actually knew the guy in person and spent hundreds, if not thousands, of hours with him either in his shop, out having coffee, at concerts, flamenco happenings in bars, having lunch or dinner together, or just chatting on the phone. I knew him as a pretty good friend who was a human being with faults and greatnesses. I understand you knew him via the telephone with an occasional call through the years. When I write about him, it is my narrative not yours, you can't ask me to direct my narrative in such a way as it pleases only you. You really only knew him through the telephone, I knew him through the nuances and gestures he made when speaking plainly and openly in person. One can tell much more about a person by reading through their body language as they talk to you; and on top of that, I'm not done with my narrative.

If you ever read a good profile about someone, like say a John McPhee portrait of an interesting person published in the New Yorker Magazine, you will see that it takes many entries for an accurate illustration of a person to blossom out. I remember essays by McPhee on such individuals as Euell Gibbons or some guy who made birch bark canoes, or his excellent rendering of Thomas Hoving the former director of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. One thing that karmically linked all these folks is that McPhee did not pull punches when describing the personalities of these humans. He did not say "Oh, they are wonderful and great and beyond reproach...", he dug into each one and examined the dirty underbelly of each personality. And it takes time to create a complex picture of a human being. Often a literary gambit for showing a person you want to write about is to foreshadow a personality with some shots over the bow, really maybe take them down and trash them a little bit. The purpose of that could be to use that negative review as a basis or point of argument to show exactly how that person dealt with adversity, or as tool to set a counter argument later that the reader will find more interesting; the reader could be impacted more by a complex self contradiction by the writer which eventually sorts itself into a more complete picture of the subject. The writer has to find their own voice when constructing a complicated counter punching narrative, external voices usually just get in the way.

Here are three important things:

One - I will outlive you and I will tell your narrative from my point of view. That should scare you, when I have a pencil in my hand I am either a wicked son of a bitch or a saint. I have to be quite motivated to employ my full understanding of fairness when summing a person up. In your case frankly, I lack that particular style of motivation.

Two- Stop saying you care about others and then demand your own way or that they comply to your style of personal religious jurisprudence. If you want to preach a sermon, be my guest. Start your own topic for a discussion of how you see guitar making and religions doctrine intersecting. I might even read it.

Three-- Don't start a war with me, you will lose. In the words of Ronald Reagan - I refuse to take advantage of my opponents youth and inexperience. However I will drop my Reaganesque geniality if you continue F-ing with me and I'll wipe the floor with your literary carcass.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2017 23:49:05
 
nhills

Posts: 230
Joined: Jul. 13 2003
From: West Des Moines, IA USA

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to Tom Blackshear

Tom:
This is a lutherie forum - keep your religion to yourself!

_____________________________

"The duende is God's orgasm." - Antonio Canales

"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." - Santos Hernandez (as translated by R. Brune)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2017 23:56:20
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Mosaic tile: A modest Remembranc... (in reply to estebanana

Now where was I.....

I can't remember, I'm too muddled and off center- This thread did not go as I planned, but nothing ever does, so what is new. In the mean time, whilst I figure out how to continue, check this out. The Forager, John McPhee's profile of Euell Gibbons from 1968, still worth reading. I won't give it away, but one dirty little spoiler, Gibbons says in casual conversation to McPhee that in many instances he would rather have a juicy hamburger than the wild food he forages and writes about.

Ever eat a Hamburger? Many parts are edible.

How did I even get here?????


http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1968/04/06/a-forager

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 0:12:06
Page:   [1] 2    >   >>
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1] 2    >   >>
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.046875 secs.