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mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011
 

Did millennials kill music? 

Or am I jut getting old and bitter?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 0:37:29
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

Baby boomers brought us disco so killing music wasn't a new idea.
My generation certainly contributed nothing to help the matter.....

_____________________________

\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 0:48:13
 
mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011
 

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 1:17:01
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

Don't be silly Hillary Clinton killed music.

Also Be-Bop killed Swing
Swing Killed String Bands
Beethoven killed Haydn
Leo Fender killed The Guitar

Miles went electric and killed Jazz single handedly in one afternoon.

Millies are amateurs at killing music.

______________________________________________


I knew a white guy who was a very good jazz pianist married to a flamenco dancer. He made a living playing music, not teaching, but playing out. We talked about jazz piano one afternoon. The subject got on to Thelonius Monk, I said Monk as one of favorite players and that I loved the way he lead his group and made the horn player pay close attention to how they shape a line in relation to his piano accompaniment. I mentioned Charlie Rouse the sax player in particular.

He said those guys in particular ruined the art of jazz. He said after they got through with it and everyone took off in that direction jazz was ruined. I said so you don't play any Monk tunes? He replied that that stuff is garbage. Eventually my dancer friend got a divorced the anti-Monk and married a real estate guy who spear fishes for ling cod.

Of course I did make the cunning lingust joke when they got married and worked in ling cod and spearing somehow, and probably now upon remembering this story should send them a Thelonious Monk album.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 2:34:11
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3219
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

Popular music has died, then resurrected at least once during my lifetime, then died again.

I was born in 1937, at the height of the big band swing era: Glenn Miller, Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey, Benny Goodman, Woody Herman etc. All these white bands had their genesis from the great original Fletcher Henderson band. Fletch later worked as an arranger for some of the white bands, but he died in obscurity.

When I was in high school in the first half of the 1950s, it was paradise for a kid interested in music. Woody Herman, Artie Shaw and Benny Goodman were still very active. Hell, Louie Armstrong was still active and still blowing like an angel. Count Basie and Duke Ellington were making records and making money. Woody Herman's last Herd came to Washington DC.

Meanwhile in New York Bird, Diz, Monk, Art Blakey, Lenny Tristano, Miles and the like were reinventing jazz. On the west coast Mulligan, Getz, Chet Baker and people of that kind were developing another stream of jazz.

Toscanini, Stokowski, Van Beinum and their generation of great conductors were still on the classical podiums. Horowitz, Rubinstein, Heifetz, Casals, the Budapest Quartet, and a host of other greats filled concert halls.

But pop music was in the pits, with "hits" like Dean Martin singing "When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's amore." The radio was filled with tin pan alley shlock.

I organized a band. On Saturday mornings we got together and listened to the last part of the "Top 40" radio show. If a new song came onto the "Top 10" list, we copped it off the radio. The music was that simple, that easy...and that stupid. A bunch of high school kids could cop it off the radio in one take. Then we would be ready to take requests at the dance we played that night.

But what really got the kids out on the floor was pieces we worked up from the late 1920s through the early 1940s. This was much more interesting stuff, with its origins in traditional jazz, following an arc of development into swing, written and performed by literate, trained musicians. The kids may not have consciously analyzed it, but they immediately recognized the higher quality of the earlier stuff, compared to the dreck that was on the radio. We probably put a little more into the performance, too.

Eventually the big bands died, except for Ellington, who was recognized as an American classic. The swing generation got old. Even Satchmo had to slow down. Bop was intentionally unpopular. It was meant as a deeply intellectual pursuit, to some extent meant to exclude white musicians. Many blacks felt white musicians had stolen jazz and swing from their originators.

Some jazz groups like Brubeck, the Modern Jazz Quartet and a few others retained economic viability. Brubeck studied with Milhaud, and analyzed Stravinsky et al. Miles went to Juilliard, but dropped out to move downtown to the jazz scene. Getz had a hit with his bossa nova albums.

But pop remained under the control of business men and gangsters, like it seems to be now--until the 1960s, when Columbia's John Hammond started booking musicians like Bob Dylan and Joan Baez from the Greenwich Village folk scene. Dylan wrote of the influence of Woody Guthrie:"The songs themselves had the infinite sweep of humanity in them... [He] was the true voice of the American spirit. I said to myself I was going to be Guthrie's greatest disciple." So now there was something on the radio that dealt with things other than teen age lust or puppy love.

The folkie phenomenon was followed by the explosion of the counterculture and rock 'n roll. Popular music was once again a worthwhile art form. The rest is history...including the music biz being taken over once again by business men and gangsters, as rock faded.

RNJ

...and for estebanana, here's Monk's "Round Midnight" as arranged by the great Roland Dyens.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 4:43:12
 
Joan Maher

 

Posts: 177
Joined: Dec. 3 2013
 

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

Na there's so much nice music available https://youtu.be/1PKdK_68r0A

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Gracias!


Joan Josep Maher
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 8:34:00
 
Piwin

Posts: 3394
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

Well that's a loaded question. I guess it all depends on what you mean by "kill music".
The post-Napster music industry has experienced a steep decline (total trade revenue basically halved over one single decade). Add to that how subscription services like Spotify have gained ground, and how they are notoriously bad for artists except a few worldwide celebrities, putting more and more money into the hands of a minority or already rich artists to the detriment of the rest of us. There's less and less money and it's in the hands of fewer and fewer people. The attitude that some millenials have, expecting music to be free, has definitely taken a toll.
YouTube rewards the absurd and the visually funny. There will always be plenty of 14-year olds that find a man in a marshmallow suit funny, so those kind of productions have an easy incentive, easy reward system that works well for them. I remember how some artists had a hard time coping with the visual aspect of music in the 80s and 90s when music videos became the norm. It just wasn't their trade and they didn't know how to adapt to that, nor did they want to. In the internet age, it got even worse.

There's still a lot of creativity and quality out there though. If you have a few hours to kill, try writing a score for any of Skrillex's dubstep music. It's a rabbit hole, a deep one, but an interesting exercice. Bands like The Milk Carton Kids are doing a great job making contemporary folk music. Some rock bands are exploring polytonality in ways that I hadn't heard before. There are some exceptional voices in the arena of R n' B. Some are trying to blend different genres in novel ways (doesn't always work obviously, but when it does it can be very interesting). That Belgian kid Stromae managed, among others with his hit "Alors on danse", to make kids from all over the world danse to incredibly depressing lyrics. He also revived the political activism that had been the strong point of French-speaking rap in the 90s but had lost out to the whole bling-sex-violence thing in the first years of the new millenium. Etc. etc.
They can get buried under the gazillion views of a Gangnam Style video, but they're still out there.

Earlier this week I saw a video of the Oscars ceremony. They had suprised some tourists and walk them into the main auditorium during the ceremony. They were center-stage in front of the most known movie figures in the planet, and all they could think of was to film the scene with their f*cking smartphones. And these weren't millenials mind you. That's what's being lost. Not the creativity of artists. But the attention span of their audience that is basically non-existent today and their ability to engage with others without a digital device. There are plently of musicians in the younger age groups that are trying to engage. There's just nobody left to listen.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 10:10:33
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13338
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to Piwin

quote:

The post-Napster music industry has experienced a steep decline (total trade revenue basically halved over one single decade).


Yep. You can't compare music trends from history with what happened there with the double edged sword of the internet. While some have embraced and adapted to it, and all have had to adapt in someway regardless if they fought against the changes, the simple painful fact remains that "we" professional musicians can no longer encourage the young to take up music seriously as "a living" or "profession". So it's not that music has been "killed" but rather the "musician" is being forced to evolve into the hobbyist category regardless of how serious they want to pursue it. I will be taking my 14 year old kid to go see Iron Maiden this summer, it was ridiculous price and I have never been a huge fan but I know that my 3 year old will never get to experience such a thing and it is truly depressing.

It is defiantly NOT about getting old, which was the excuse for changing trends. This is quite a different thing IMO.

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www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 11:27:33
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3308
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

It's not a question of music "dying." Nor is it restricted to Millennials. In my opinion it is all part and parcel of a much larger phenomenon. There is a level of shallowness throughout society today that did not exist, say, 50 years ago. Everyone seems to be wedded to the internet and social media, to the point where there is no "filter" (for lack of a better term) to act as a brake on junk posing as gems. That goes for music, writing, knowledge of history and other intellectual pursuits, and politics (as the recent U.S. election has demonstrated).

My wife taught university courses on culture and health for several years to undergraduates, graduates, and doctoral students. She would assign projects and papers, and many times the level of writing that students turned in was execrable: bad syntax, bad punctuation, and often an inability to provide evidence supporting conclusions. Likewise, today anyone can start a blog or website on the internet and pass off unsupported statements as "facts," and there is an eager audience willing to accept them as such. In short, particularly in the United States, there is a sense running at large that "expertise" in any field is "elite." Those who have spent a lifetime gaining knowledge and expertise in various fields are considered "elite" and no better than the average guy, whose opinion is just as "valid" as the expert. God forbid that one be considered "elite."

So what we are left with is the lowest common denominator determining much of our politics, news, "popular" views of science, music, and other entertainment. In the past, the "elites" that are so despised today at least provided a level of expertise and a filter that by and large separated the wheat from the chaff. Today, you have a rabble that denies scientific evidence of the human element causing climate change, that denies the fact that there is absolutely no evidence that vaccines cause autism, and whose shallow understanding of everything from international relations to music is determined by what they see on a screen in front of them. We have gone from actually reading books and journals on various subjects in order to gain a deeper understanding to leaning on Wikipedia, which is sometimes wrong and often incomplete. But what can we expect when "everyone" can contribute to Wikipedia.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 13:31:30
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1762
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

The rest is history...including the music biz being taken over once again by business men and gangsters, as rock faded.


My wife and I have been watching The History of Rock ’n Roll, a set of 10 DVDs, which is, by and large, excellent, and which features many key figures in interview and performance.

It attributes the take-over you mention to the advent of multi-million selling albums (beginning with Frampton Comes Alive and continuing with Fleetwood Mac etc.) which made the artists concerned major, major cash cows.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 16:17:08
 
Piwin

Posts: 3394
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

the "musician" is being forced to evolve into the hobbyist category


Spot on. I doubt I'll see the day, if ever things do swing around, where the pros' advice to students won't have to start with "get a day job"...

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 16:32:34
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1762
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to Richard Jernigan

Things in the UK didn’t go quite the same way. Amid all the pap of the late ’50s and early ’60s and the dismal covers of American hits, there were two strands that were peculiarly British.

One was the emergence of The Shadows (Cliff Richard’s backing group) as a major instrumental force. Their stuff was first rate, and it still stands up today. Unfortunately no effort was made to market it properly in the US. Their lead guitarist, Hank Marvin, was Britain’s first guitar hero, and an influence on such as George Harrison.

The other was Skiffle, spearheaded by Lonnie Donegan, leading directly both to the British Folk Revival (which had little to do with singer/songwriters), and to the boom in garage bands. Lonnie’s influence was incalculable — the Beatles are only the most famous example.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 16:37:51
 
Mark2

Posts: 1696
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to Leñador

Wow, disco. In 1979, I was a road warrior playing six nights a weeks, five sets a night. We had some disco in our set list-donna summer tunes, etc. Whatever was on the radio we played. It was super fun to play for packed dance floors full of beautiful women. In the northwest we played clubs that had gambling(I did well at the blackjack table) bar fights, etc. We practiced and went fishing during the day. Great times! Do not be hating on the Disco!! HAHA

Music is not dead, but as Ricardo said, musicians are on life support. Napster, and now spotify have gutted the musician. But before it was the record companies.

It amazes me that the manufacturers(recording artists) have let the distributors take over their business and set the price, starving them out and reaping almost all the profits. Again.

A full time player recently commented that playing music is one of the top ten professions. Not sure I agree with that. Maybe if your elton john, etc.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

Baby boomers brought us disco so killing music wasn't a new idea.
My generation certainly contributed nothing to help the matter.....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 16:49:59
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3308
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to Paul Magnussen

As I recall Lonnie Donegan, his biggest hit in the U.S. was "Does Your Chewing Gum Lose Its Flavour (On the Bedpost Overnight?)"

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 22:55:07
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
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RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

I loathe Spotify. I lectured a an acquaintance over his saying he used Spotifart. I said man, how do you expect musicians to live if you use that awful service? This is guy is almost 60, knows the rock world.

I buy classical music when can. The recordings are well done and many of the artist who record today are making fantastic recordings. To many to mention but I collect cellists recordings, chamber music and todays classical composers.

I even,*GASP* buy classical guitar music.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2017 23:19:09
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 728
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

quote:

Did millennials kill music?


Punk tried but there were too few of them and they just killed each other.

Rob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2017 10:35:05
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3308
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I buy classical music when can. The recordings are well done and many of the artist who record today are making fantastic recordings. To many to mention but I collect cellists recordings, chamber music and todays classical composers.
I even,*GASP* buy classical guitar music.


When all is said and done, I really don't give a damn whether "pop" music is dead or alive. I'm pretty much indifferent to it. I'll throw my lot in with Stephen when it comes to classical music. I'm currently spending a month in Tempe, Arizona, near Arizona State university. A couple of weeks ago I attended a program at ASU's School of Music. The performer was a classical guitarist from New York named Andrew York who played his own compositions. It was a great program. Classical music will always be enjoyable. And the classics of jazz and other music, Charlie Byrd, Frank Sinatra, the West Coasters, the New Yorkers, and others are timeless.

For my money, the last time I really enjoyed popular music was the mid to late sixties with Simon and Garfunkle, The Mamas and the Papas, Bob Dylan in his early years, and others of that era. Everything since, from the seventies on, has been nothing but pap (the Eagles excepted). but that is just my opinion, and I still have the classics to fall back on.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2017 13:15:47
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
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RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

Andrew York is a cool composer, lucky you got hear him.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2017 14:32:48
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 865
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

There's lots of good music out there, it's just changing, and the places you find it are
different. If you only look for more of the same thing, then it becomes difficult, since
there's less of it.

Jeff
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 2 2017 20:34:35
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3527
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74



_____________________________

Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ


Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2017 2:12:11
 
Piwin

Posts: 3394
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to BarkellWH

Bill,

in case you haven't heard of them, give the above-mentioned Milk Carton Kids a listen. They're no Simon and Garfunkel (who is?) but the inspiration is pretty clear. I found them to be a pleasant surprise. It sure beats that marshmallow song. On a sidenote, the fact that they put up a lot of their material free of charge on the internet is yet another example of how artists have had to adapt to this post-napster world.



@Miguel de Maria

And here's the social commentary version:
(the subtitles are absolutely horrific, but it's not too hard to get the point with just the image)


The point is just that you can take similar musical techniques, a rather boring beat, repetitive electronic samples, etc. and still make something that isn't devoid of meaning or just about partying, sex, violence or money.
I don't enjoy his music per se. His usual fast-paced 4-beat drum box and electronic effects just aren't for me. But I do appreciate the artist for what he's trying to do.
Hell, he had the balls to make a song whose only chorus is "cancer cancer, when will you strike next? Cancer cancer, who's turn is it?" (while also reminding us that dance can actually illustrate a song, not like a lot of the choreographies we've been seeing for the last decades that don't seem to have anything to do with the music). We'd be wrong to think milenials are unaware of the world around them, focused solely on superficial partying and have no real concerns or fears that they express in their music. None of this is to defend the form that contemporary popular music has taken. It's just to dispell the notion that it is necessarily shallow or devoid or any real meaning.


_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 3 2017 10:21:46
 
mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011
 

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

.......
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 4 2017 3:04:33
 
mark74

Posts: 690
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RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

more evidence
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2017 20:27:08
 
mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011
 

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

http://blog.reddogmusic.co.uk/2016/01/08/the-guitar-is-dead/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 10 2017 22:53:20
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

That guy is an unlettered moron.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 11 2017 4:30:17
 
Piwin

Posts: 3394
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to mark74

The fact that you're still going for the low hanging fruit (just picked up from the ground at this point) suggests some of it is probably that bitterness you mentioned in your first post.

I worry more about what our propensity to blame everything on younger generations says about us. And what we're saying here about music is just a tiny fraction of what we're blaming them for. Blame them for everything, and then act surprised that they've developed this sense of "self victimization" and go off to their safe spaces or whatnot. Paintings of the Greek Titan Kronos come to mind.
In any event, this kind of generational divide rarely makes for an accurate analysis of...well anything really, especially when it's set up like a blame game, the where's waldo of responsibility and guilt. Is music dying in the 21st century and, if so, why? That should be the starting point. Did millenials kill music? is too slanted of a question to lead to any interesting conclusion. A millenial could just as well ask: did baby boomers kill the planet? Since it was under our watch that climate change became an issue and under our watch that it could have been mitigated yet for the 20-25 years that we, the general public, have known not doing anything would mean a bleak future for our children we did nothing of substance. One could just break it down by generational lines and then conclude that our generation just didn't care if their children had to live through the rough times to come or one could look at the systemic factors that actually led to the current situation.

If it makes things easier and we really need to point to someone, how about we just say that I, Piwin, single-handedly killed music. Now we can move on and try to understand what's actually happening.

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 11 2017 12:29:20
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3308
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to Piwin

quote:

Blame them for everything, and then act surprised that they've developed this sense of "self victimization" and go off to their safe spaces or whatnot.


The culture of "victimology" has been around the United States a lot longer than have millennials. The Baby Boom generation was blamed for everything from being self-absorbed to having refined the concept of being "entitled." In fact, that was one of the criticism of the Clintons, both Hillary and Bill, and it carried an element of truth. Hillary, particularly, appeared to act as if she was "entitled" to be President, to the point where she ceded the "White Working Class" to Trump. (This has all been discussed before, but I bring it up just as an example.)

The absurd dependence upon "Trigger Warnings," "Microagreesion," and "Safe Spaces" (particularly in universities) goes beyond just the Millennial culture, in my opinion. It is a reflection of a corrosive attitude in the U.S. that has been around for perhaps 30 years or more that every ethnic and cultural group has been historically "victimized." And that, in turn, has led to the fragmentation of American society, as each group and sub-group demands "compensation" for the perceived historical "wrongs" that have been perpetrated against it. It has led some businesses and institutions to develop so-called "sensitivity" training in which those of European heritage are expected to reflect upon their "White Privilege" and bow down before the altar of a "Multiculturalism" run amok.

So, yes, the Millennials do have a sense of "self-victimization." But I would suggest it is not because of we elders blaming the "younger generation" for everything. (That has been the case with every generation, as far as I can tell.) Rather, it is part and parcel of an insidious culture of "victimization" in the U.S. in which one's self-worth appears to depend upon one's status as a "victim" and the ability of entire classes and groups to achieve status as an officially "protected" class. Millennials of whatever color, ethnic background, or class are no exception.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 11 2017 13:02:21
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to Piwin

quote:

If it makes things easier and we really need to point to someone, how about we just say that I, Piwin, single-handedly killed music. Now we can move on and try to understand what's actually happening



Hey screw you, I killed science and math education and I'm working on killing English Lit. and ancient Mongolian history. You rank under achiever, try killing a hard subject next time.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 11 2017 14:20:23
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

The culture of "victimology" has been around the United States a lot longer than have millennials. The Baby Boom generation was blamed for everything from being self-absorbed to having refined the concept of being "entitled." In fact, that was one of the criticism of the Clintons, both Hillary and Bill, and it carried an element of truth. Hillary, particularly, appeared to act as if she was "entitled" to be President, to the point where she ceded the "White Working Class" to Trump. (This has all been discussed before, but I bring it up just as an example.)


Robert Hughes wrote a book abtout culture and victim hood called 'Culture of Complaint'.

On the topic of white working class, that label is a logical fallacy. The white working class does not exist. Clinton I don't think felt entitled to the White House as much as miscalculated how racist and sexist America really is. The so called downtrodden white working class is playing to victim hood right now, that the reason they feel they are in dire straights is because they voted for Republicans for four decades and those politicians raped them. They brought the bad fortune on themselves but the white nationalist propagandists have told them they are victims of minorities and immigrants taking that to which they feel they are entitled. It is false narrative of victim hood, because they spent decades voting against themselves. They will get what they deserve, which is more screwing over.

If you want to engage in looking at trigger warnings and big baby behavior look no farther than soft white middle class who vote Republican. They think they are the biggest victims.

On the subject of cultural sensitivity, the white people America have not done anything wring, but and the narrative that whites have abused privilege does have some truth to it. We don't have Jim Crow laws on the books any longer, but vestiges of Jim Crow exist in spirit. I don't think sensitivity training is going to do a lot to help America understand itself and it's history, which it by large denies and won't deal with. America is a youthful country still it it's teenager hood compared to older cultures; America as whole has not gone through enough self reflecting during hard times in a post civil rights era.

The problem has never been that whites as a whole as the power holders of the country are losing power or losing economically, the problem is that now they are facced with living in the same circumstances and conditions that they historically put to the native people and African Americans. America is becoming more equal in terms of the lower classes are living at the same standard, no matter what the color of the skin. Whites are now getting a taste of they they historically metted out to Black and other minorities who they kept as underclasses, and they don't like it one bit. Whites are now understanding en masse what drug addiction is all about, how drug addiction decimates whole sectors of society they are learning what Blacks who saw their culture tor apart by drugs understood 30 years ago.

The drug culture writ large is only one thing whites are now understanding, and they don't need ot be sensitive, because going through that drug warp and solving it will cure then of them of the lack of self reflection. Now those who self identify as white victims will get the opportunity to see who the gay community felt when the government of the 1980's said HIV/Aids did not exist and there will be now funding to research it. When America will to have to look to the other minority communities for help in fighting drug addiction as it spreads and becomes mainstream in white society.

White America now has has an much needed opportunity to put on the big boy pants and self reflect while it goes through this identity crisis. And learn the real difference between victims and playing at victim hood.

And I realize I'm not going to be popular with that view but it's my hard earned view from living through that stuff in my own family. The great thing about music and art is that after a culture or a person self reflects, they have the draw to redress the trouble in their souls by engaging with books, arts, music as a redemptive life force. So ok someone is out there killing music and we want to blame them, fine. But when a person or a society seeks out real redemption through music, the music will arise and be made that will treat the pains of the people. That music might not get played on the top 40, yetvit still exists and will always exist.

In the end I have empathy for the feeling of sadness Ricardo talked about, the understanding that in some ways it will be harder and harder to be a professional at music. But take heart, difficult time breed the best art and art and music reinvent when the people need it - there could yet be a paradigm shift in how music is professionalized and who knows, it may turn back in favor of the musician. History is a meandering monster and the monster just might kill the music execs. Godzilla was a good monster, we need a good monster.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 11 2017 14:38:10
 
Piwin

Posts: 3394
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Did millennials kill music? (in reply to BarkellWH

Good point, and makes for a much more interesting conversation. I guess that was in part was I was trying to point to when I said "this kind of generational divide rarely makes for an accurate analysis". There may be some elements of truth in a generation-based view of issues, but most issues go beyond that.

@estebanana
It's not what you kill but how you kill it. I don't just kill with a quick slit of the throat, but I strike in precise locations and cajole my victim into a slow, almost painless death. Do it too quickly and the adrenaline leaves a sour aftertaste. For a moment there, I was worried I might have acted too quickly by introducing auto-tunes, but I'm still feeling a pulse so we're still on track.
Slow and gentle. (That's what she said)

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 11 2017 15:10:59
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