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Argaith

Posts: 479
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? 

Hi all,

Can anyone recommend any good DVD that would help learning to accompany Cante and/or Baile.

Thanks,
A

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 24 2017 12:11:55
 
AlVãl

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 20 2016
 

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Argaith

Hi
These are helpful
Cover most palos
Jose Anillo - Rafael Rodriguez and Pastora Galvan to name a few performers
Straight forward tablao type choreographies and cante that is familiar and standard
Nothing is really explained but straight forward enough to understand
There are bits and pieces on you tube

https://youtu.be/REbU5kkSmH8

Audio can be previewed on iTunes

Three dvd's in total
https://www.elflamencovive.com/italian/baile-flamenco-coleccion-completa.html

Not sure if this what you seek and imagine there's probably a ton of other stuff out there
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 24 2017 15:13:31
 
Piwin

Posts: 3406
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Argaith

As an alternative, you could rummage around YouTube for the channels of some of the big flamenco venues. They often have videos where it is pretty easy to see what the guitarist is doing (and with no camera changes), like this:



My guess is that if you just learned to play along with this whole video (for example), slowing it down if you have to, not even necessarily Learning the falsetas but focusing on the accompaniment per se, then you'd be well on your way to understanding how to accompany an alegrias. It may not give you the theoretical framework, but you'd definitely get the feel of it.
It has the added benefit of being cheaper too

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2017 21:40:09
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1800
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Argaith

I've become a big fan of the pedagogic series of CDs called Escuela De Flamenco Presentada Por Cristina Hoyos. Great study material. My only criticism is that when you buy the mp3s online they don't send the letras with the tunes. Luckily there are some very cool people who hang out here

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 26 2017 0:58:57
 
Argaith

Posts: 479
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Argaith

Thanks a lot for your posts folks.

I will surely consider your recommendations. They'll keep me busy until such time that I find what I'm after (if available!).

Basically, I'm looking for a resource that would break each palo down (i.e intro, salida, letra, escobilla, subida, transition into another palo rhythm, ending).
I was wondering if there's such a thing!

Thanks again,
A

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 27 2017 14:45:21
 
AlVãl

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 20 2016
 

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Argaith

Hi Again
Made me think that a good resource - other than the above ( which have limitations ) would be to Skype in choreography classes
I'm not sure if that's a potential resource some of us could share
Or
Alternatively
Pre record sections and upload to a choreography thread ( couldn't find a concentrated thread in search )

Would this kind of thing be helpful?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 28 2017 12:04:30
 
orsonw

Posts: 1568
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Argaith

quote:

I'm looking for a resource that would break each palo down (i.e intro, salida, letra, escobilla, subida, transition into another palo rhythm, ending).


I am not sure of your goal but in my experience the best way to learn accompaniment is to actually accompany. There are some basics here, not sure if this is too basic for you?

http://ravennaflamenco.com/articles

Alegrias
http://ravennaflamenco.com/articles/accompaniment-alegria
Solea
http://ravennaflamenco.com/articles/accompaniment-solea

For cante if you have no one to accompany then the foro accompaniment thread.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=124692&p=2&tmode=1&smode=1

Or Luis Reinaldos Ruiz channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/reinaldos7/videos
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 28 2017 13:01:43
 
orsonw

Posts: 1568
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to AlVãl

quote:

Made me think that a good resource - other than the above ( which have limitations ) would be to Skype in choreography classes
I'm not sure if that's a potential resource some of us could share



Here you have Farruquito por tangos and La Farruca por bulerias.






I think maybe Jason's website has baile accompaniment lessons including videos of unaccompanied dance to pracitce to? You'd need to ask him to be sure.
http://www.flamenco-lessons.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 28 2017 13:06:04

payaso

 

Posts: 85
Joined: Dec. 7 2014
 

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Argaith

There are some good illustrations of guitar accompaniment for a singer (Amparo Heredia) and dancers (Raquel de Luna and Miguel Infante) in Juan Martín’s most recent publications, Volumes 1 and 2 of Essential Flamenco Guitar, each with two DVDs.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 29 2017 11:34:19
 
Argaith

Posts: 479
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to orsonw

Thanks to all of you who chipped in, especially to Orson with the very good resources. I agree the best way to learn to accompany is to actually accompany.
A

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 30 2017 9:35:44
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1800
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Argaith

The documents and discussion on this thread might help you map out the basic chords for cante accomp for some key palos.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=298945&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=&tmode=&smode=&s=#299114

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Ay compañerita de mi alma
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 30 2017 14:20:55
 
Mark2

Posts: 1708
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Argaith

David Leiva has a bunch of stuff out:

https://flamenco-connection.com/products/fc-8r-0060
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 30 2017 19:22:00
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Argaith

quote:

David Leiva has a bunch of stuff out:

https://flamenco-connection.com/products/fc-8r-0060


Never seen those, pretty cool.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 30 2017 20:40:47
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1800
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Leñador

Never tried them, but the Manolo Franco series has always sounded tempting.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/printable.asp?m=93489&mpage=
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

quote:

David Leiva has a bunch of stuff out:

https://flamenco-connection.com/products/fc-8r-0060


Never seen those, pretty cool.

Definetly! !

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Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 30 2017 22:30:48
 
AlVãl

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 20 2016
 

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Dudnote

I have the Manalo Franco series
Picked them up in a sale for next to nothing
They are a good go to for letras but no addressing the Baile
I agree that accompanying is the only way to learn to accompany .. But understand not a geographical reality for some ( which is why I suggested for those of us who do to upload some classes etcetera - given permissions etc )
The resources are a good prep but never enough it seems


This is using the Franco resource
The isolated cante/palmas tracks are fun to work with
https://soundcloud.com/user-42779168/guajiras
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2017 1:33:55
 
Argaith

Posts: 479
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Mark2

quote:

David Leiva has a bunch of stuff out: https://flamenco-connection.com/products/fc-8r-0060


This sounds like exactly what I was looking for:)
Thanks a lot for your recommendation.

A

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2017 8:50:43
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3388
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Leñador

quote:

quote:David Leiva has a bunch of stuff out: https://flamenco-connection.com/products/fc-8r-0060 Never seen those, pretty cool.


anyone seen these vids? If so please comment.

I have seen a couple of the DVD's, and the guitar playing is.... well.... calling it a bit odd is the kindest way of putting it....

to be less kind but more honest IMO the timing is decidedly shaky....

The only good thing about them is that somehow they have got classic recordings of cantaores, added a compás track for guidance and removed the guitar track.
So you can use it for cante accompaniment practise, but I wouldn't recommend Leiva's accompaniment as any kind of example to follow....

And, like the Manolo Franco DVD's, it is cante only, no baile.

The Manolo Franco DVD's are better in the sense that when you watch and listen to Manolo's accompaniment it is faultless!

The Leiva books contain a small sample of so-called dance accompaniment, but honestly, they are worthless.
The only good thing about the books are the CD's have tracks with cante and no guitar, same as with the DVD's.



The other good resources for accompaniment (cante) are:

the Moraito Encuentro DVD has 3 cantes with Terremoto; Malagueña, Siguiriyas and Bulerías fin de fiesta,

Merengue de Cordoba Encuentro DVD vol 2 with cante of Churumbaque, pretty much all palos,

Oscar Herrero DVD's Paso a Paso vol 6 (Solea - 4 cantes; 2 styles of Solea, Caña and Polo) and vol 9 (Alegrías - 4 cantes; Alegrías, Romeras, Mirabras and Caracoles)


For dance accompaniment, find a dance class with a guitarist (there are lots in London!) and ask to sit it. Use your eyes and ears!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2017 15:10:49
 
Mark2

Posts: 1708
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to mark indigo

Yeah,
I agree the accompaniment is weird-the timing is slightly off, or maybe the concept of replacing the original guitar playing on the recording is in itself, a bad idea. The playing doesn't groove
In spite of that I think it works for it's intended purpose-it focuses on small bits of cante on classic recordings, and gives you a way to accompany them. It would have been better to teach the guitar part that was on the original recordings IMO but again, it does work. I think one could progress from this point to hearing what is happening on actual recordings though, so again, I think it could work for some folks.
And you have the option of muting the guitar. Overall, I think it's a good intro for people that are overwhelmed by trying to pick it off a record-he breaks it down into small sections and spoon feeds you a way to do it, he just doesn't capture the groove. And he sometimes puts in falsetas from time periods that are not from the era of the recordings, which shouldn't be a crime, but somehow sounds a bit weird. I'm basing this on seeing one of the bulerias dvds.
As far as dance accompaniment, I just don't see how you can learn that from a dvd. For that matter, it's not like you are going to learn how to play for cante from this either, but it could help establish a base of knowledge from which to progress.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

quote:

quote:David Leiva has a bunch of stuff out: https://flamenco-connection.com/products/fc-8r-0060 Never seen those, pretty cool.


anyone seen these vids? If so please comment.

I have seen a couple of the DVD's, and the guitar playing is.... well.... calling it a bit odd is the kindest way of putting it....

to be less kind but more honest IMO the timing is decidedly shaky....

The only good thing about them is that somehow they have got classic recordings of cantaores, added a compás track for guidance and removed the guitar track.
So you can use it for cante accompaniment practise, but I wouldn't recommend Leiva's accompaniment as any kind of example to follow....

And, like the Manolo Franco DVD's, it is cante only, no baile.

The Manolo Franco DVD's are better in the sense that when you watch and listen to Manolo's accompaniment it is faultless!

The Leiva books contain a small sample of so-called dance accompaniment, but honestly, they are worthless.
The only good thing about the books are the CD's have tracks with cante and no guitar, same as with the DVD's.



The other good resources for accompaniment (cante) are:

the Moraito Encuentro DVD has 3 cantes with Terremoto; Malagueña, Siguiriyas and Bulerías fin de fiesta,

Merengue de Cordoba Encuentro DVD vol 2 with cante of Churumbaque, pretty much all palos,

Oscar Herrero DVD's Paso a Paso vol 6 (Solea - 4 cantes; 2 styles of Solea, Caña and Polo) and vol 9 (Alegrías - 4 cantes; Alegrías, Romeras, Mirabras and Caracoles)


For dance accompaniment, find a dance class with a guitarist (there are lots in London!) and ask to sit it. Use your eyes and ears!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2017 16:02:54
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13411
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Mark2

I have for years now had an idea to do something like guitar hero for cante and baile accompaniment....where it's like a video game and you have to accompany with the right chords and llamadas and cortes and tonos for different letras, and footwork and tempo changes etc etc, and you graduate like video game style to higher levels. You know start at dance class level, then up to Eva Yerbabuena level etc.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2017 1:28:26
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1800
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
I have for years now had an idea to do something like guitar hero for cante and baile accompaniment....where it's like a video game and you have to accompany with the right chords and llamadas and cortes and tonos for different letras, and footwork and tempo changes etc etc, and you graduate like video game style to higher levels. You know start at dance class level, then up to Eva Yerbabuena level etc.

Sounds awesome. When can we sign up?

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Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2017 3:04:54
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13411
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Argaith

Here is a video of an Alegrias performed at a festival, with advanced student dancers as a group.



There was no rehearsal for this and I don't play for their class, so this was "fresh" choreography for me. Before going on stage I was told "there are two letras, do a LONG falseta in between, no silencio, short escobilla and buleria de cadiz." The video unfortunately cuts off before the Escobilla and buleria de Cadiz, but here at least is a break down of what is happening in the first half:

0:00 - my intro falseta is cut off and you only hear my cierre closing chord sequence.
0:05 - estribillo, well I call it that because they sing in unison but truth is it's just the colatilla part (little ending) of a normal alegria letra. More often you hear "tiri tiri tran tran" same chords and melody instead of what they do.
0:22 - llamada...actually they speed up into buleria right away with footwork. Normally this is done at regular tempo with some fancy footwork, but in this case the speed up (supida) is very clear rhythmically.
0:29 - a short closing I sensed was coming and stopped on 10. Sometimes these endings are two compases long, so I am normally on the look out here for dancer's cues about the length. Notice I was hardly watching then looked up and was like "oh **** we are stopping!!" Lol.
0:33 - first letra. There are 3 main types of Alegrias letras. This is the typical SECOND style that starts on tonic and comes down to the major 3rd. This line of melody also gives me the tempo and rhythm while I wait, and I don't come in until count 7 8 9 10 and lock it in. It is very typical to come in this way and it means you have to know the melody rhythm pretty well internally and how it lays over the compas. It helps to read the singer's body language here as well since a brand new tempo is being established.
1:01 - colatilla...this is the tail ending of the letra. You have to listen out for this because some singers won't do it, or they might do a different kind that requires different chords. Again, the one he does is like "tiri tiri tran tran" type melody and rhythm.
1:20 - so I am watching what comes next and I am like, oh yeah "long falseta"...so basically I do two short falsetas back to back because I am not sure what long really means.
2:02 - ok so my falsetas are done but it seems it was too short so I launch into some obnoxious rhythm guitar stuff. LOL. They start doing footwork in there and I just keep that up until it ends at
2:23 - and I mark a strong 12th beat for the next letra to begin...again I like to wait until count 7 to come in with the compas, even though tempo remains steady. In this letra I do more aggressive type chord attacks and stuff, just to build it up dynamically.
2:57 - the colatilla again, same like the other one.
3:15 - buleria build up, this time more gradual relaxed, and less dramatic than at the beginning of the dance. They keep a medium slow tempo for some footwork.
3:53 - they do a spin and then jump the tempo up here.
4:00 - llamada to stop the buleria build up, and the first part of the dance is over.

Wish I had the rest to show, but it is all foot work stuff until the end pretty much.

Hope this helps a bit.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2017 6:21:55
 
Argaith

Posts: 479
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Ricardo

Much appreciated Ricardo.
A

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2017 12:23:46
 
AlVãl

Posts: 73
Joined: Oct. 20 2016
 

RE: Accompanying Cante/Baile DVD? (in reply to Ricardo

That's awesome Ricardo ..
Huge thank you for your time on that post
Great stuff
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2017 1:20:14
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