Imprecise work - need advice

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Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

Imprecise work - need advice

Normally I do not make a separate Heelcap.
In the hustle and bustle of the day two mistakes happened.
At first I took too much material to make a miter of the purflings. Then I cut the purflings too short to get a clean joint. Everything else has become very good.
This has not happened for a long time, but making mistakes is not hard as you can see!
I do not want to fill up here because it will always look like bad work.
I thought about lengthening the heelcap in the back, what do you think of it?
Version 1 with a small triangle of Rosewood and a Maple Heelcap and Version 2 only with a RW cap.
Are there any other suggestions to fix this?

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)

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Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2017 6:39:54

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

Make the miter on the binding, set the heel cap down into the miters, but don't sink the triangle into the back strip! Use a dark rosewood to make the heel cap.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2017 8:20:49

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

Hello estebanana,

Is version 3 what you mean?

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Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2017 9:53:16

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

I think Stephen Eden does his heel cap like your third version. It looks fine, he recently had some posts on building a cedar top negra which if I recall shows his heel.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2017 14:33:29

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

You still have one more chance to be clean and keep your basic binding scheme:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2017 18:37:50

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

Or split the backstrip and miter it in something like this:

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Attachment (1)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2017 18:49:07

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

Thanks for your support.
It's already fixed.
I post a picture soon after I have cleaned all up.
This forum is a really nice place

with nice luthiers!

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Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2017 19:07:09

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

quote:

This forum is a really nice place with nice luthiers!

Yep, thanks to everyone for helping Vince. That is the kind of global cooperation which we take so much for granted nowadays.

Look forward to the fix.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2017 19:35:27

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

It's fun to talk shop! Good luck with it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2017 20:51:56

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

Thats how it looks now! I decide not to make a joint in the Maple Stripe because it will always be visible in light colored wood. (Heel not yet formed)

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Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2017 16:51:34

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

Vince, on my pc there´s only 1 picture and that is of a rosette. There also seem to be 2 broken images above.
I was curious to see your solution.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2017 7:55:22

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

Hy Anders,
sorry
the picture is also fixed

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Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2017 8:20:02

Wayne Brown

Posts: 124
Joined: Oct. 22 2012
From: Huntersville, North Carolina, USA

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

Great save Vince!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2017 14:27:54

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

Yes, it looks elegant.
May I ask you how thick your bindings are?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2017 16:32:14

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

You can asked me nearly everything Anders!

I make my bindings normally 2,5 mm wide. I route the channel 2,5 mm and install the 2,6mm Binding.
When I use ebony or another brittle wood I go for 2mm, but all depending on the overall scheme I have planned.
If I use 2,5 mm I set the tentelones next to each other or use solid linings to avoid glue running inside.

Please note, the binding is only the Maple, the Purfling at the back is set separate and is 1,5mm wide.

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Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2017 18:08:12

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

Vince, I would remove the heel cap and install one the same color as the back, and then cut the line only where it covers the purfling mistake, IMHO.

I know that little things like this sometimes mess with your mind but it's "All in the game," as the song goes.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2017 18:45:29

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Vince)

I like the look of thick bindings, but I dont like what it does to the guitar structurally.
If you rout away the thickness of the side, then the side itself will only be glued to a very small part of the tentellones or the back lining. And thats not very strong
It is structurally a lot stronger to make a thinner binding and glue them on what is left of the sides after routing.
So, IMHO, a 2,3mm thick side should have something like 2mm routed away. That way the binding makes the guitar structurally stronger and not weaker.

It is of course only my opinion and others may not agree.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2017 8:23:11

Njål Bendixen

Posts: 65
Joined: Aug. 25 2016

RE: Imprecise work - need advice (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Anders

Very interesting!

Have you considered that the strength of the plate-side joint affects the sound? It is not just a structural consideration. From violins I know that the stronger the linings the brighter the sound, and that the smaller the linings the darker the sound. So the dimensions of the linings are first of all an acoustic consideration.

I a not saying that one configuration is better than the other one, I am just saying that it affects the overall balance of the instrument and it depends on everything else that you do. Ok, yes, this is a minor criteria, not a major one like the thickness of the front. Just one more thing to think about.

Njaal

quote:

I like the look of thick bindings, but I dont like what it does to the guitar structurally.
If you rout away the thickness of the side, then the side itself will only be glued to a very small part of the tentellones or the back lining. And thats not very strong
It is structurally a lot stronger to make a thinner binding and glue them on what is left of the sides after routing.
So, IMHO, a 2,3mm thick side should have something like 2mm routed away. That way the binding makes the guitar structurally stronger and not weaker.

It is of course only my opinion and others may not agree.