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Could you point to something more specific that you thought was BS in this thread? It must've been really out there if you're willing to leave the foro just because of it.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
The interesting thing about him leaving in a snit, Piwin, is there are other threads dealing with everything from luthiery to playing technique. Surely there must be something that interests him. No one forces him to read the Off-Topic section, much less one thread within it. I am always amused by someone who gets wrapped around the axle because of one thread. Good God, man! When you see a topic you don't like, don't open it up and read it!
Bill
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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Exactly. I do understand how this may be a touchy subject, and it's for good reason we have that saying of not talking politics or religion at the dinner table, but there's just so much on here of value that I wouldn't even consider leaving no matter how bad it got in some threads. I've commented fairly regularly since I joined earlier this year but to be honest the main use I've been making of the foro is going through old threads. There's enough material there to keep me busy for quite a long while and I don't think I've even scratched the surface yet! Oh well, hopefully it's just a temporary reaction.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
Trump has promised to roll back corporate taxes(as well as income from pass through entities) to 15%. Hilary promised to raise taxes on those earning more than 250k. If you earn more than 250k as say, a dentist with an LLC, it's a pretty easy choice as it pertains to his personal situation. For a person earning 500k, that could be a 100k difference in his tax bill.
Here's how I see it -- The upper class is threatened by the middle class so they convince the lower class that they're in a 'cultural' war with the middle class. The lower class acts against the middle class (and their own) interests out of spite and give more power to the upper class.
It was the most stupid thing to (1) take Clinton (2) be so arrogant and confident in victory in the media.
I knew exactly he would win weeks before the election. Just simple psychology and knowledge of human behaviour, no need for complicated political analysis at all. Now its over and its useless to cry. But maybe learn a lesson for next time. The lesson is: you're all in the same basket with the "deplorables"
I just hope that Trump doesn't push the wrong buttons and bombs the sh!t out of everyone to show that he has a huge working dick, just because someone said something wrong to him Lol. If we survive the next 4 years without too much crazy stuff, then this was a good lesson to maybe chose the right candidates for next time and also not be so snobbish infront of the camera.
anyways, f.uck politics. lets make flamenco great again and grabem by the g-string, ole
This is what we've been hearing from Trump supporters and Trump himself over the last few weeks, and now apparently from people who don't even support him. Dissent is just "crying" or whining and it is useless. A great view of democracy that is. Do they still have civics class in school these days? I'm seriously starting to wonder.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
I'm ready to dissent and if you don't, you're the puppet.
OK everyone !!!! hold it are you through chastising the US, with your miserable political views lied about on CNN, lets all turn this back into a Flamenco Forum, which it was intended to be, if you want to rant and rave, go to Facebook there is plenty of it there, you'll be very happy. Please lets keep this the best Flamenco Forum on the internet, with not running people off of it, with your senseless bitching.
Oh and for your information (wanted or not), I am an American, left there when George Bush Jr. was in office, kept tabs on Obama, and what he didn't do for the world and country, with Trump being voted in is just a overflow runoff, of everyone's frustration of politicians in general, I for one. There is "NO" room for politics here, especially when no one really knows what is going to happen. They are being brain washed by the huge news broadcasters, that have been proven to have released fake news, lying about Trump, trying to sway all puppet minded peoples to believe their right wing fabricated stories, I really believe which are a few of these people here in Foro Flamenco I must apologize everyone has a different opinion which are like _ssholes, everyone has one.
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Insulting everyone's views as "miserable" isn't going to get you anywhere. This thread had died down and you revived it with your trolling. Just don't open the thread ffs.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
Insulting everyone's views as "miserable" isn't going to get you anywhere. This thread had died down and you revived it with your trolling. Just don't open the thread ffs.
Geez man. Whatever did I say to warrant that?? Breathe man. Breathe.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
I dont get it. Why is a thread like this one being accepted. Ban political discussions from this forum. And go somewhere else with this kind of discussions. You guys have the whole freaking www. Its always been bad for foroflamenco (and most other sites I know of) and not long ago, this section was closed. Stop it before we reach that point again. Its ridiculous and totally un-flamenco.
It is "Off-Topic" which, by definition, has nothing to do with flamenco. What I don't get is why a few Foro members seem to get wrapped around the axle over a discussion that interests other members. I have always appreciated the fact that many Foro members have diverse interests that range far afield from flamenco, yet they contribute to the purely flamenco threads as well.
It is amusing that those who criticize this thread seem to be reading the comments very carefully. I wrote a comment above, and I will repeat it here. If you don't like the Off-Topic section in general, or a specific topic or thread in particular, don't read it! That seems elementary to me. There are plenty of flamenco topics to digest. Just look at the line-up today. In addition to this thread, the following topics listed are: "Cordoba Without a Truss Rod," "112 Jazz Chords," "Dark Eyes por Milonga," and "Jeronimo Perez." Additionally, as Piwin suggested, there is a whole library with years of flamenco threads and topics to go back to for information and opinions.
The Foro is a strong forum primarily dedicated to flamenco, but the Off-Topic section allows for discussion of non-flamenco topics. Surely the Foro is strong enough to handle that without the occasional member getting his knickers in a twist.
Bill
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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
@chester If that understanding of the situation is correct, which I honestly don't know, I would say that you're right in saying that "Americans didn't make that up", but perhaps it is exacerbated there by the extent of wealth inequality which I don't think exists elsewhere in the world (i.e. the gap between the highest economic portions of society and the middle class is much bigger in the US than in other Western societies I believe). I've also read that the extent of wealth inequality correlates (in this case, negatively) rather well with certain other indicators associated with democracy, such as freedom of the press indices, range of political views to choose from during elections, trust in public institutions, etc.
edit: @Anders Eliasson sorry Anders, somehow I clicked reply to you when I meant to reply to chester!
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
Do you like a good fight? Start a discussion about politics or religion. Succes assured.
Or over here, a discussion about soccer or what "bulerias al golpe" means
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
Here's how I see it -- The upper class is threatened by the middle class so they convince the lower class that they're in a 'cultural' war with the middle class. The lower class acts against the middle class (and their own) interests out of spite and give more power to the upper class.
I'm pretty sure Americans didn't make that up.
..if it is still safe to comment....
Chester's analysis is sharp. I agree that it has resembled the strategy of the American upper class in the long run. I would amend "lower class" to read "disaffected Americans," which includes a lot more people than just the lower class.
This includes people offended by social change, beginning with the Congressional Civil Rights and Voting Rights acts of 1964 and 1965 and the Supreme Court's decision legalizing abortion in 1973, extending through same sex marriage, and all the way to disputes about who may use which bathroom.
A large number of people are deeply offended by some or all of the government's actions in these areas, and have been persuaded to vote against their own economic interests by Republican promises to turn back the clock on social issues, and by actions to limit minority voting rights.
Indeed, both the lead attorney and the plaintiff in the abortion case (residents of Austin) say they regret bringing the lawsuit to the Supreme Court. Not because they believe abortion should be prohibited, but rather because they believe the nationwide effect of the decision was to hand the Republicans a "wedge" issue. If it were left up to the states, abortion would likely be legal in the majority Democratic states, and illegal in the rest: An unsatisfactory situation to those who believe abortion should be a readily available option, but one which avoids an issue widely used to persuade people to vote against their economic interests.
However in the short run, many of the upper class are appalled at the result. Stout Republicans like Mitt Romney, John McCain, and Paul Ryan, and real billionaires like Michael Bloomberg have been horrified by Trump.
I just read David Axelrod quoted saying, "The Republicans rode the tiger. Now it's eating them." But he said it while it was still generally believed Trump would lose. I wonder what he would say now?
Personally I believe there are adequate grounds to think it possible that the tiger may take some bites out of all of us. We shall see...
Conversation seemed pretty civil and in some cases informative except for ONE person. This is OFF TOPIC, no one forces you to read it, if you only want flamenco/guitar talk stay away from the off topic threads, problem solved. @Piwin, maybe time to start a very heated cante argument. Cameron couldn't sing, puro gritando, let's discuss.
I made my "offer" because the Offer Section seemed lonely- I thought my offer was damn generous. Ad supposed to be a bit funny or sarcastic.
Here's what I say- artists or creative people have always had a say in politics and in flamenco it's no different. If you understand the history of flamenco you'll know that during the Franco era there were coded methods of dissent that flamencos would throw out. You would also know that the flamenco world in that time and still is a place were liberalism and personal liberties have been defended.
The playing of the French national anthem La Marseillaise was banned during Franco's time. I know film made in the 1960's in which Dego del Gastor plays La Marseillaise as a dissident act. He could have been rounded up for breaking the law, but he risked it knowing they did not take it too seriously unless it was played as a big public display. Nevertheless he committed a small act of defiance of power.
That is not unusual for writers, visual artists and musicians, to act in a gesture of defiance or power or civil disobedience. And every artist in each genre finds a line to which they will accept a power structure they deem unjust. Well I just found one that I can't ignore. I did not ignore what I found problematic with the last presidential admin, or the Bushes admins......etc. All the way back to Richard Nixon who was president when I was ten and first came to a political consciousness about my country. I watched some of the Watergate hearings live on television when I was in the third and forth grade. And we talked about it extensively in the elementary school history class.
The problem with dissent is that artists lose patrons that do not hold the same values they hold. And if that is what it boils down to today, right now, I just found a line I won't waiver from if someone says I will not patronize your work if you hold certain political values. Or challenge values of current power. I'm going to dissent where I see fit regardless of what potential patrons who do not hold my values have to say. I'm going to do so intelligently in ways that do not insult the opposition supporters, but I see no reason to be scared of naming those in power who I disagree with or find loathsome.
@Leñador Try bringing up vegetarianism in a pena, that one will get you some dirty looks! Or better yet, say you think bullfighting is inhumane!
@estebanana
quote:
It's buleria pa' escuchar you Moron de la Frontera.
Little known not-so-factual anecdote: Beyonce spent the summer of 2006 in Spain. One evening, while she was finishing up a drink at the local terrasse, she had an encounter with a Moron de la Frontera. The man just stared at her, couldn't pull his eyes off of her. She was starting to feel uncomfortable. He muttered "One day, Alfacar". Unfortunately for him, she overheard. She looked over in disgust and told him: "hey man, if you like it, you should put a ring on it. oh. oh. oh.". The man didn't miss a beat: "honey to get what I want, sure..Almeria." She stood up immediately, grabbed her purse and scoffed: "Before Irun, I'll tell you this. A lot of guys have Benifallim for me and I really don't need you Moron when I can have Palencia men." Her driver pulled up in her luxury car. "You got Nothing on me you Baeza sh**. I'm the queen here. I make it Jaen". And that was that.
(shut up. It's early)
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
@pundi64 As promised, I won't flood the other thread so I'm bringing this to the off-topic section, where we had already begun an interesting discussion on the matter before you told me to "_uck off" for no apparent reason. You're right, I did feel compelled to reply because I was surprised by the numbers you were showing and wanted to know more! Here is the link I got those numbers from: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/ I don't think Pew is known to have any particular political bias (?) I would quite like to know where you got your numbers from, for my own edification. Again, I really think you missed the point estebana was making. As for the rest, mind you I've "dealt with" the election results a long time ago and overcapitalizing still won't help you make your point. It does seem though that you're having a hard time dealing with the fact that you'll be hearing quite a lot of dissent in the next few years. Maybe not from me, maybe not here on this foro, but it is going to be around given how polarizing the current president is. Honestly though, you may want to find a better way of dealing with that type of confrontation, even just for your own sake... You can take it as the friendly suggestion it is or tell me to "_uck off" again, whatever rocks your boat. I'm not bringing any bad blood into this conversation, that much should be clear from my previous posts.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
perhaps it is exacerbated there by the extent of wealth inequality which I don't think exists elsewhere in the world
I don't understand why people get their knickers in a twist over inequality per se, rather than poverty. If I have a decent standard of living, medical care, education for my kids etc. what do I care if Paul McCartney has 1,000 times as much as I have (as long as he doesn't use it to abuse others, of course)?
I agree with you in principle, but I have a hard time uncoupling the two. It may just be a poor understanding of economics on my part, but I have a hard time shaking the idea that it's a zero-sum game. I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer to the question "would our standard of living in the industrialized world even be possible without cheap labor in poor countries?"
In some cases, it may be that rising inequality and increasing poverty are just symptoms of a same underlying cause. For instance, automation continues to push many people down into poverty while aggregating the wealth around a happy few. In such a case, to address poverty would automatically entain addressing wealth inequality at the same time, and vice versa.
Another issue may just be a moral one: people may not accept that someone have much more wealth than they do because it is perceived as unfair. The way I see it, wealth and "merit" are not as connected as the human mind would like them to be. Some people may have everything they need in life but still feel that sense of unfairness when they see a person who has much more by sheer luck (or, to not get into a debate about how much is due to merit and how much is to luck, by what is perceived to be sheer luck). Poverty is a much more urgent issue compared to that but I can still see how "luck-based" inequality could bother people, even if they do have everything they need. I find that issue of merit profoundly disturbing. At this point, I just bypass it altogether as I think it's simply an insoluble question.
Or, to sum it up with poetry, this is how J.S. Goytisolo put it, as sung by Paco Ibanez:
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
The 114th Congress is 80% white male and 92% Christian- 20% of Congress is Female, and more diverse racially and religiously.
Women make up more than half the population, but are under represented in Congress- 20 Women in the Senate and 84 Women in the House for a total of 104 women in Congress.
Even though the Congress is very slowly incrementally becomein less white, the ratio of men to women is 4 out of 5 C ongress members are men. In the total population of the country 51% are women.
Women are underrepresented in Congress, which is neither here nor there in this conversation, except that I like to throw that out for people to think about. These are real facts. Verifiable by looking up the 2010 Census and the 114th Congress.
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