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RE: Is Manuel Reyes Sr. overrated?
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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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 RE: Is Manuel Reyes Sr. overrated? (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
quote:
I've said this before, if I put my prices down around 6 to 7000, I would not be able to fill all the orders, so what does this prove? The age old problem with some players is that the great makers seem to raise their prices before the economy of the poor can catch up, and then the poor complain that they can't afford it so they trade among the lower cost builders from guitar to guitar........
......instead of saving their money and trading up to a style that they would enjoy playing. For example: Antonio Marin is a good maker but honestly, I build a stronger guitar, not because I'm a better builder, but due to the fact that I use a stronger plan.
The poor? You mean like a Republican politician who recently said the poor should not spend money on an iPhone and expect health care? If I had a lifetime list of people who want to buy a guitar for $4000.00 I would take it and not complain.
This kind of talk about pricing is vulgar.
Ay ay, I totally agree, I could use a 4000,-$ lifelong list as well, or whatever list for that matter :-).
I also agree in that this pricing talk is vulgar and I believe that both you Stephen and TomB shoud be above all this and stay away from this kind of babble where the ooohhhh so wise guys put prices on other peoples hard work. Just let them do that in peace. They only show how respectles and vulgar they are.
Prices are only numbers and as such, totally uninteresting. This Luthier thing is the wild west. Get what you can get and step on whoever in order to survive. All the romantic blah-blah that some, especially non-builders like to write on forums like this one is nothing but emptiness.
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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
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Date Mar. 12 2017 13:05:35
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Is Manuel Reyes Sr. overrated? (in reply to estebanana)
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Some things in business are irrational, we take them as market realities, but really they are irrational. Cost has some determining factors, but components of the equation are irrational. A lot of crazy talk could be avoided if that were universally acknowledged. For example brand loyalty to an extent is about uniformity of product, or style as it effects performance.
Another aspect of brand loyalty is peer acceptance and family piety to certain brands. Mom used this kind of bath soap and I know this brand therefore I'm buying it too. My mom uses Dove bar soap, but I switched to liking a less creamy white bar soap, then I veered into Dr. Bronners in my 20's, then I became hopelessly lost on bar soap and liquid soaps became my main everyday soap. When traveling I began the odious habit of collecting hotel mini soaps, I once had a shaving kit full of business card sized hotel soaps from China. Some of them were from a hotel I stayed at in Ningbo, near Shanghai, called Public House Hotel. The bar soap packages were slightly off, they read Big Pudlick House, I thought it was funny, the label. I stashed half a dozen in my shaving kit bag to give as gifts. Humor is also irrational.
Eventually I brought them back to Oakland and left them in my shaving kit. I gave a few away as gifts to some guffawing over the spelling error. And forgot about the soaps. Eventually, I began to run my bank account low because I had become disenchanted with the idea of a career path that involved doing architecture and started hanging out at the Albatross flamenco night and drinking Guiness and Harp half and halfs. The Dr. Bronners bottle ran dry one afternoon in the shower, when shopping the next day I had to make a choice between a new bottle of premium liquid soap and peanut butter and bread or peanut butter and jelly and bread and save the Dr. Bronners money for drinking at the Albatross. The thing that clinched taking the decision was remembering the Big Pudlick house mini soaps in the shaving kit.
All was good, until I actually got into the shower and was about to break through the paper wrapper when I was seized by nostalgia for Ningbo and the little island of Puto Shan next to Ningbo where I went on a Buddhist pilgrimage for a day walking on a path between temples that were built in the 6th century and having a saffron yellow pilgrimage bag stamped with a large block with a commemorative red ink seal of each temple in the complex. I could not remember where I put the bag, but I had the Big Pudlick House soaps to remind me of the pilgrimage and the slow train ride to Ningbo when I bought dumplings from a girl walking down the aisle with a basket full of hot dumpling.
Flamenco is evil sh*t as it drives one to buy guitars and use up sentimentally valuable items like motel soaps with labels that would delight Dr. Freud.
This is truly how the market works.
And one correction, Picasso, not Rembrandt set the auction price for the highest price ever paid for a work of art. Rembrandt is not even in the upper tier, Jasper Johns paintings have sold for more money than some Rembrandt's, and Titian also beats Old Rumblossom the Dutchman on some auction blocks. And don't pronounce Titian as Tit - ee - ann. That is vulgar.
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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Mar. 13 2017 1:19:41
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Leñador
Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles
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RE: Is Manuel Reyes Sr. overrated? (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
According to good commerce and business habits, and the probability that I could sell the Hauser faster than the 300 Yamahas, it would be a bad trade
You could likely mark up each Yamaha $50, earning you $15,000 profit. Even if you sold the hauser immediately at a $7,500 profit and it took you ten years to sell the yamahas and you kept your $37,500 from the hauser sale in a VERY generous 1.5% interest you'd still be a couple thousand ahead on the Yamaha sale. Now.....storage of 300 yamahas, unless you've got a space that costs you $0 this is where the hauser sale would take the advantage....that and the work involved in each sale, marketing, shipping etc..... you'd have to charge closer to $200 a Yamaha for it to make sense.....
Rant over, killing time alone at a taberna in Sevilla. 
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\m/
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Date Mar. 13 2017 11:50:16
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Is Manuel Reyes Sr. overrated? (in reply to avimuno)
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quote:
Seriously though, some of the questions being raised here through the logic of guitar valuation would require going back to Marx's Das Kapital where he analyses the question of the value of labor and it's translation into capital... which would itself require a serious confrontation with Ricardo's theory of labor... fascinating stuff really!
Marx's "Labor Theory of Value" was, and is, fatally flawed because he concludes that the value of a good or service is determined by the amount of labor required to produce it. He left demand entirely out of the picture. In fact, demand is far more a determinant of a good's or service's value than the amount of labor that went into its production. One can put in 100 hours of labor to produce something, but if there is no demand for it it has no value in the market, which is to say it has no value.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Mar. 13 2017 13:15:48
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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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RE: Is Manuel Reyes Sr. overrated? (in reply to BarkellWH)
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quote:
quote:
Seriously though, some of the questions being raised here through the logic of guitar valuation would require going back to Marx's Das Kapital where he analyses the question of the value of labor and it's translation into capital... which would itself require a serious confrontation with Ricardo's theory of labor... fascinating stuff really!
Marx's "Labor Theory of Value" was, and is, fatally flawed because he concludes that the value of a good or service is determined by the amount of labor required to produce it. He left demand entirely out of the picture. In fact, demand is far more a determinant of a good's or service's value than the amount of labor that went into its production. One can put in 100 hours of labor to produce something, but if there is no demand for it it has no value in the market, which is to say it has no value.
Bill
Your analisis of Marx is useless because you analyse from a liberalist point of view. Marx was never interested in demand but in need. Thats something completely different.
Stephen, thats a lovely goo-filled rosette. Nothing beats goo even though its highly underrated to paint with HHG
This weekend, I planted 2 trees and a bush, polished some layers of Shellack and watched ladies Biathlon on the telly while I farted because I had lentejas.
(gee, the guy likes ladies biathlon) 
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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
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Date Mar. 13 2017 14:46:24
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Is Manuel Reyes Sr. overrated? (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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quote:
Your analisis of Marx is useless because you analyse from a liberalist point of view. Marx was never interested in demand but in need. Thats something completely different.
If there is a need for something, there will be demand. There is a need for irrigation water in Arizona. If Arizona suffers from a drought, and less water is arriving via the Central Arizona Project and the Colorado River, the cost of the water to irrigate the fields will rise because the demand for it will increase as it becomes more scarce. It is the demand, coupled with the level of supply, that creates value and therefore the cost. Marx was good at describing the conditions of nineteenth century industrial Britain, but he was a very poor economist. And he certainly failed with his "Labor Theory of Value," which is now taught only by aging Marxist professors whose faculty tenure keeps them afloat while they await retirement.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Mar. 13 2017 15:02:20
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