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TGerman

 

Posts: 119
Joined: Nov. 27 2005
 

Music Theory 

Can anyone recommend beginners book to music theory? Especially as it pertains to flamenco? I would really like to understand more. Also, do you think it is very important to learn theory? I know there are some incredible musicians that no nothing of it.

Thanks everyone,
Todd
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 24 2006 15:30:38
 
Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
 

RE: Music Theory (in reply to TGerman

In a recent post I posted links to several freebie flamenco music theory resources, but for some reason I can't find the post. Never could get the search thing to work properly

I wouldn't call it 'very important' to learn theory, like you say there are many excellent flamenco guitarists who know little.

However, an understanding of theory is helpful in all music. Most importantly, it gives us a standard language and structure when we need to talk about musical things.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 24 2006 15:46:30
 
Niklas

Posts: 96
Joined: Aug. 27 2005
From: Finland (Living in Dublin)

RE: Music Theory (in reply to TGerman

Well... I undestand Paco can't read notes and didn't know too much about music theory until he met Di Meola and McLaughlin... But i wouldn't use that as a reason not to learn theory . (I did untill a few months back ...)

I have also been thinking of getting a book of some sort to learn more but i haven't found a good one yet... So i'm kinda repeating the questiong

Niklas

WOW!

Jon! You posted 1 second before me

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 24 2006 15:46:31

ToddK

 

Posts: 2960
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: Music Theory (in reply to TGerman

There's a distinction that should be made.

There are those, like Paco, that "know" theory of music, innately.

They cant explain the parts of a chord with theoretical terms,
but , they understand how the system works just as well.
I would say this is fairly rare though.

I say, learn some interval theory. Learn chord construction/progresion.
Nothing heavy. Just the basics can open many doors.
TK

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 24 2006 15:55:40
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Music Theory (in reply to TGerman

There is a very good musictheory book for beginners. And its learnable without a teacher. It tells all the absolute basics very simple. The only problem for you would be that I only know it in the german version. The title is: elementare musiklehre ISBN: 3-8024-0348-7 And you need to be able to read notes (the oposite of tab..dont know it in english) Its from the Voggenreiter company. They have many books. You could check their netpage or write them a mail. They will tell you if their bokks are avalible in english. its www.voggenreiter.de
Good luck
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 24 2006 16:49:13
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1235
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Music Theory (in reply to TGerman

In my undergrad I used a book called Tonal Harmony by Stefan Kostka and Dorothy Payne. It's a pretty basic book, but it doesn't talk about flamenco.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 24 2006 16:56:57
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Music Theory (in reply to TGerman

I read somewhere that Paco learned music notation to play Aranjuez.
I can also agree on Doit's recommendation.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 24 2006 18:01:01
 
carlos soto

 

Posts: 126
Joined: Oct. 22 2005
 

RE: Music Theory (in reply to TGerman

I don't know any flamenco oriented theory books, but there's a lot of theory regarding each palo. Go to teoria.com and read the tutorial, then connect what you learn with each palo.
Of course it's not that easy, to get yourself familiar with flamenco you'll need a lot more but that's a good start.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 24 2006 18:18:26
 
gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: Music Theory (in reply to carlos soto

quote:

I don't know any flamenco oriented theory books


This book is perhaps the only music theory book dedicated to flamenco (there's also a version in Spanish). Though its not a "starter" book, meaning it will not teach you music theory if you don't know it, its aimed to those that know classical music theory and it analyzes all flamenco forms in music theory terms and shows how it applies to them.

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Guy
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 24 2006 20:52:24
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3523
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Music Theory (in reply to TGerman

Wouldn't a "jazz theory for dummies" kind of book work well for this?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 24 2006 21:02:13
 
Gecko

Posts: 218
Joined: Jan. 2 2006
From: New Mexico

RE: Music Theory (in reply to TGerman

I have found this one to be very helpful, yet not overwhelming.

Mucis Theory Pocket Guide
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 24 2006 22:24:20
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11293
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Music Theory (in reply to TGerman

I play flamenco and I know "theory" very well. I can safely say that knowing it will neither harm nor help your flamenco development. I guess in small way, it can harm you if you go in with preconcieved ideas of how flamenco might use or be bound by the same "rules" taught in a theory course. But, if one can still be open minded and put theory aside for awhile when learning flamenco, it is not bad to know. Remember theory is an abstract way of understanding music, just like flamencology. Does not have anything to do with playing, but it CAN be a tool to use if you know how, and don't think in absolutes.

I have a BM in music, and as far as "Tonal harmony" and music theory is concerned, everything you need to know about it is covered by memorizing and understanding this diagram:

http://www.carolinaclassical.com/scales/circle2.jpg

Taking a course is just going through tons of excersises and examples proving why this thing works. Most theory courses skimp on rhythm. I would recomend taking drum lessons or studying rudiments over theory books, especially if you are into flamenco.

One more aspect of music, not tonal harmony or rhythm, but MODAL music. That is eastern music that is based on a drone, where you have scales tuned perfectly, no harmonic movement. The whole point of Tonal music theory (the circle of 5ths) is that you can have moving harmony, changing keys, no drones. Flamenco music is a sort of hybrid of these ideas. The singing is very modal, but the guitar is tonal, or bound to the rules of the Circle of 5ths. So at least for GUITAR study, knowing the circle of 5ths will not hurt.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2006 16:04:44
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3523
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Music Theory (in reply to TGerman

Ricardo, great post. I think I finally just understood what the heck modal means. It's the sound of the cante in bulerias, right?

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2006 16:53:34
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11293
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Music Theory (in reply to Miguel de Maria

Bulerias, sometimes. C7-F, or the E7 cambio are very tonal ideas the guitar brings to the table, harmonizing tonal progressions to modal singing. Think more about Martinete or Siguiriyas, where it is just going back to A, almost drone like. The best example is El Pele on Canto, where vicente just holds the tonic chord for the whole siguiriya. That is modal.

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2006 17:04:10
 
TGerman

 

Posts: 119
Joined: Nov. 27 2005
 

RE: Music Theory (in reply to TGerman

Whoa...this is all way above my head. I was just looking for some basic theory to try to get an understanding of what is happening when I play or when I'm told "this is in the key of...".

I actually bought a book which is right up my alley for what I need right now, now don't laugh too hard, "The complete idiots guide to music theory", it provides me with just the right amount of information as it is all totally new concepts to me. This book along with the website Carlos recommended, teoria.com is about as much as I can handle right now. It's all pretty overwhelming.

Thank you all for your suggestions,
Todd
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2006 18:23:45
 
Thomas Whiteley

 

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Music Theory (in reply to TGerman

quote:

Can anyone recommend beginners book to music theory? Especially as it pertains to flamenco?


Todd;

Musical Theory of Flamenco Guitar volumes 1 and 2 by Manuel Granados

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http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 26 2006 0:15:06
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