RE: Building a Cedar Negra

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Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Hi Stephen, nice work. What chisels are those with the dimpled hoops?
Interesting way of fitting the heel cap into the bindings.

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2016 23:26:44

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Cheers all I hope it was worth the effort and that anyone looking was able to get some ideas from it.

Andy I have a mix bag of chisels all are Japanese. I have one Akio Tasai chisel. This is my favourite and most expensive. Then I have a set of Ice Bear HSS - I got these when I started my first guitar on an evening course. The rest are IYOROI I bought these because the Ice Bear chisels didn't go smaller than 12mm.

The heel cap fitting was just the way I was taught to do it. I think it adds a little more finesse perhaps than the more simple butt join but it has it's practical reasons too. I've found that it can really save students (and me on the odd occaision) who cut just a little bit too much off that last binding, as the gap left is cut away. The other reason is that you often see polish sinking in to the joins around that area, with this method you have one less join for the polish to sink into.

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 8 2016 8:13:35

julianev

Posts: 78
Joined: Apr. 13 2015

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Hi Steve,

Great to meet you last night, and thanks a lot for the hospitality! What a truly beautiful guitar this is. I'm not sure how much staring at it in rehearsals I'm going to be able to take before I break the promise extracted by my wife not to join your waiting list!
all the best

Julian

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2016 11:02:41

julianev

Posts: 78
Joined: Apr. 13 2015

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to julianev)

What are the tuning pegs you used, by the way - I forgot to ask? They are amazing...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2016 11:06:20

mellowmel

Posts: 85
Joined: Aug. 31 2006

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

This is starting to be mouthwatering. I have 4 primeras at the moment - all spruce blancas so a cedar negra might be in order to round off my current collection.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 12 2016 4:53:27

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Hi Julian,

No problem at all, it was a pleasure finally meeting another foro member! perhaps it's time to buy your wife the gift she always wanted!

The tuners are M&M tuners. They really are fantastic tuners although can be slightly difficult to get hold of.

Cheers Mel, I think Cedar for a negra is a great choice and definitely complements a blanca or 4. So without further ado. Here is the finished guitar.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 12 2016 8:48:37

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 12 2016 9:12:12

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 12 2016 9:20:48

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Hey guy!! move to San Antonio so I can get you to do my french polishing and J-Joints for me.

This offer goes to anyone who would like to move here to help me. I would teach all I know for the fine-tuning and building process for the help.

I know...wishful thinking

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 12 2016 13:30:29

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Cheers Tom, I have been really focused this year on improving my french polishing techniques. I am aiming for that entombed in glass look. I'm not quite there yet but I'm getting closer each time I polish.

I was however wondering what a J joint is. I googled it but got links to a whole other type of joint. Do you mean mitres?

I would love to move over but I don't think you could provide the amount of work I need to survive!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 13 2016 8:11:19

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

quote:

I was however wondering what a J joint is. I googled it but got links to a whole other type of joint. Do you mean mitres?

I would love to move over but I don't think you could provide the amount of work I need to survive!

Yes, I meant miter with the purfling. And it's most likely not a good idea to move here until the economy improves.

And, years ago, I got a talking to by Tim Miklaucic of Guitar Salon that my finish looked too good, more like shiny Formica instead of a good hand rubbed finish, so I had to back up a little with it, in those days.

The point I'm trying to make was to have the finish done by someone else than this builder

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 13 2016 13:20:55

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

This is a very nice guitar Seden.
Very clean work and a superb french polish.
Gratulation.
Maybe you can make a FP tutorial next time ;-)

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Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 13 2016 18:43:36

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Nicely done work on this guitar.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 13 2016 23:12:27

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Vince)

quote:

Maybe you can make a FP tutorial next time ;-)

There are all kinds of french polish tutorials on you tube; one for your viewing is:

http://tbguitars.com/french-polishing/

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 3 2016 9:42:45

Vince

Posts: 141
Joined: Oct. 21 2012
From: Germany

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

I have read many books, asked many questions to experts and seen many videos about FP. I watched restorers in their work.
Ultimately today I do nothing more than I have done in the beginning.
Almost all techniques can lead to success, without experience in the relevant technology; however, this does not occur.
I think that SEden has found his way to do FP and he is now an experienced luthier.
If I had used the time to read and watch the video to polish my guitars it would have gone faster.
The key of all is patience!

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Vince
http://www.gitarrenbau-held.de/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 4 2016 11:18:47

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Cheers Vince, I think that it is just time, patience and practice that will help you get better. I have easily polished 200+ guitars over the years and am still improving. I find though I have to spend more time to get it the way I want and the remember how I got it that good if that makes sense. Keep trying and you will get there!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 4 2016 15:04:16

pundi64

Posts: 234
Joined: Jul. 29 2016
From: Thailand

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

What is the finish you used for the guitar body, if shellac french polished, it came out beautiful.

Interested in knowing?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 4 2016 21:30:39

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Cheers Pundi, It is indeed a shellac French polish.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 5 2016 8:14:32

bbfifas

Posts: 29
Joined: Sep. 29 2016
From: Vero Beach, FL

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Beautiful, any sounds clips of this one?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2016 19:07:13

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Thanks bbfifas, Sorry no sound clips. I am terrible at playing guitar so I wouldn't be able to do them justice. Also my guitars are usually gone the day after stringing them up.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2016 8:02:48

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

You might not be a player but you should consider a player for your work as it will give a wider introduction for your guitars world wide.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2016 14:36:16

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Of course I know that Tom. To be honest though over here is all about the classical guitar market and I can point someone in many directions if they want to listen to one of those. I build one to two Flamenco guitars a year which is fine for me. With Spain so close it would be foolish to focus on Flamenco guitars any way.

I know Juan Martin used one of my guitars for some stuff on his latest teaching DVD but that's not my material to share.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 16 2016 11:22:40

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

I feel that you are welcome to demonstrate a classical guitar on this thread if you have a mind to.

I sold my last classical to a member of this list, and as far as I'm concerned you should do the same.

You never know, it could be a hit toward a popular trend...Ole!

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 18 2016 20:27:21

Joan Maher

Posts: 213
Joined: Dec. 3 2013

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Nice work and a great finish.

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Gracias!

Joan Josep Maher

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2016 15:00:20

Jim Kirby

Posts: 149
Joined: Jul. 14 2011
From: Newark, DE, USA

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Stephen Eden)

To start, I'd be curious to hear your ideas about what you expect the differences to be between cedar and spruce in a flamenco setting. I know it's done, but I'm not sure what people experience the differences to be or why it's an interesting direction to go.

Oops - I had no idea this thread had been around so long.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2016 21:38:14

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Building a Cedar Negra (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Thanks Joan,

Jim - The cedar guitars are always more immediate with there sound production. From day one they are just more responsive. Perhaps a little warmer than spruce. I have made quite a few Cedar Negras and most if not all go to blanca owners looking for a little more sweetness. A lot of my clients have said they prefer using them in a solo setting. I would say it perfectly complements a Spruce Cypress guitar but not replaces it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 22 2016 8:02:37