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UK votes out of the EU
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Piwin
Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
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 RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to Escribano)
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Sad news indeed.
Though after decades of politicians saving their own asses by blaming the EU, spreading lies in all part of society about the extent to which the EU "overregulates" and thereby impedes progress, it was sadly to be expected. French politicians have been playing this little game for decades too. Were we too have a referendum now, the results would most likely be the same as in the UK (the French did in fact say no to further political integration with the EU back in 2003 but our political leaders utterly disregarded the results of the referendum...ah, true democracy!).
What this means for the future is hard to tell. If other countries follow suit, then it would most likely mean the end of what I consider to have been the most promising and hopeful political endeavour of the last century. Some optimistic voices have stated that this could be an unprecedented opportunity for the EU to further progress, as the UK was one of the major forces working against any further integration (and always kept the EU at arms length for that matter: no Shengen, no euro, etc.). Though I can't say that today I feel all that optimistic... Maybe tomorrow... I have a hard time understanding how anyone considers such a step back as progress. But so goes it. Perhaps after we've gone back to strong nation-states, we can move back to religious groups, and then all the way back to tribes as the basic political unit. After all, everyone knows that all of these big international organizations only bring peace and prosperity and it was so much better back in the paleo days where you had to worry about waging war or conducting raids on the neighbors that lived in the next-door forest. I can't see how this is a step forward. The next generation of voters, those who never knew what life was like without the "borderless" internet, simply won't understand this reflex of closing the doors shut.
In the meantime, this is the part where we've broken up, and you're packing up your stuff in boxes, where we have to decide whether we can still be friends or if we really shouldn't see each other any more. That uncomfortable moment that last maybe a few days or a week but that in the political arena has to be drawn out over two full years. It'll be awkward. But you won't hear me complain. I'm the lucky one, the one who gets to keep the house.
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
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Date Jun. 24 2016 12:53:46
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Piwin
Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
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RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to Pimientito)
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quote:
Even though you have to reliquish your British Citizenship to Spain, a British citizen can never renounce their citizenship so what happens is that UK citizens get their passports sent to the UK government, who then send it back to you so that you in effect have dual nationality.
Makes sense 
When I was growing up, some friends of mine from German parents (living in France) had to go through the harrowing process of choosing a country upon reaching 18 years of age. I think Germany has changed its policy since though and that Germans can now hold dual citizenship.
After the November 13th attacks in Paris, one of the things the French government proposed was to target dual citizens (didn't seem to matter that none of the attackers save one were all French with no other nationality to speak of...). Fortunately the bill never passed. What was interesting was the reaction of people who didn't understand the outcry of dual citizens against this bill. The main idea was that dual citizens have more passports, so they are therefore "privileged". They don't seem to have understood that it also means filling out two tax statements each year, paying more in taxes upfront than what you actually owe until both countries get it right and reimburse you, not being able to purchase any property because you'd have to pay property taxes in both countries, etc. etc. (just for my own case as dual citizen France-USA, but it varies depending on the countries involved).
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
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Date Jun. 24 2016 13:16:40
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to Escribano)
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The UK's departure from the EU is, on balance, a mistake to be sure, in my opinion. I would rather have seen a vote to remain. Nevertheless, If I were British I would not be too quick to assume another nationality and give up my British citizenship. Stranger things have happened, and after everything is sorted out it may not be as bad as some think. World stock markets are experiencing volatility as a result, but my guess is they will calm down and stabilize. While international trade deals, tariffs, and other aspects of Britain's economic relationships with both the EU and the rest of the world will have to be negotiated (renegotiated), it may take time but can be done.
While the main complaint on immigration has been directed against members of recent EU members (Poles, Rumanians, Bulgarians, Albanians, etc.), I think there was a large fear-factor that Brussels would impose a quota of illegal migrants from Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, and various African countries (many of whom are economic migrants, not refugees) on Britain in trying to distribute the load among EU countries. This fear may have been fanned by right-wing xenophobes, but I don't think it was totally irrational among many in the British public.
From my point of view, the three most important consequences of the UK vote are:
A. It may well lead to the break-up of the UK, with Scotland leaving, followed by the possibility of Wales and Northern Ireland following suit.
B. It may accelerate a movement to leave the EU among other countries dissatisfied with Brussels, eventually leading to the dissolution of the EU.
C. From a strictly US foreign policy viewpoint, the US loses a voice within the EU, provided by Britain, advocating policies on which both the US and UK jointly agree.
In any case this certainly is a historic move that may have far-reaching negative implications. Or maybe not. It will be interesting to see how it all sorts out.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Jun. 24 2016 17:15:14
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