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peter18337

 

Posts: 4
Joined: Jun. 8 2016
 

New Member 

Hello
My name is Peter and I live in the United States. I've been playing flamenco for several years now and I am increasingly feeling like a pilgrim wandering in the desert looking for water---the water in this case being someone to musically share things with. To further mix metaphors, I don't fantasize about an oasis replete with singers and dancers basking in the shade from the noonday sun, but rather just another lonely traveler like myself to enjoy the music with. What certainly doesn't help is living where I do which is Tennessee. I'm sure some of you are thinking, 'Well, that explains it' and though most of you are correct in coming to that conclusion, I've only been here for four months but, before that, I lived most of my life in the north east where things were not a hell of a lot better (except for several years back in the late 60's and 70's).
Well, be all of that as it may, I've discovered this site where I assume I'm among friends or at least, with whom, I speak the same language.
I'm of the old school when it comes to musical taste; that is, I'm not a big fan of what's called the "new" flamenco as personified by Paco de Lucia et al. Now don't misunderstand me: I admire and envy the technical skill of these performers today(and God knows that Paco de Lucia was the best) and a lot of the music that they make is beautiful and passionate. But, for me, it's just not flamenco. The sounds are beautiful but it's just not the traditional flamenco I love and was weaned on. I don't make any apologies for the way that I feel, I just do.
Let me leave it there for the time being because I feel that I'm being a bit verbose. I look forward to partaking of the conversations and I hope I have some things to offer
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 8 2016 20:12:58
 
Escribano

Posts: 6441
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337

quote:

But, for me, it's just not flamenco


PdL not flamenco? Well, I hope you enjoy your stay here and don't upset too many of us

Welcome to our forum.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 8 2016 20:43:48
 
edguerin

Posts: 1599
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337

Hi Peter,
I think I know just how you feel. For the last twenty or so years I was in the same situation (in the west of Germany, near Luxembourg). My wife and I've just moved from the rural Mosel to the urban Bonn area, so things might get better. But as my signature says: I'm The Lone Flamenco
In any case, welcome

Ed

(There seem to be two no-nos here: criticizing PdL and mentioning a certain (dare I pronounce you-know-who out loud?) Ruben Diaz (OMG, I've actually done it )

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2016 9:57:52

payaso

 

Posts: 85
Joined: Dec. 7 2014
 

RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337

In 2006 the Foro had a good thread (‘Are you a loner?’) on the loneliness of learning to play flamenco guitar. Escribano posted a video he had made on the topic (sadly not available now, it seems) . The theme chimed with many members.

It can certainly be a lonely pursuit unless one has opportunities for playing with singers, dancers, other guitarists, a teacher, a peña or even somebody, anybody, who likes to listen to what one plays. For many of us we have to express the gitano in our souls – just for ourselves. Some players seem to prefer it that way.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2016 10:27:23
 
Piwin

Posts: 3566
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337

Welcome to the foro!

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2016 10:43:40
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337

Yes this is a watering hole , the sun can be as hot as you want it ,, but you have to do the work to chop some trees down to let the light in ...

I too live in a place where there is no watering hole and have to use bottled flamenco to drink my fill .
theres all kinds of stuff here at this watering hole , old stuff new stuff ....water, juice ...you have a look around the foro and you can see / hear many of us too.//
all questions usually get answered pretty quick ...even verbose ones ...

I got my feet wet at this place ....

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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2016 14:55:15
 
Escribano

Posts: 6441
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: New Member (in reply to payaso

quote:

Escribano posted a video he had made on the topic (sadly not available now, it seems) . The theme chimed with many members.


Was it this one?



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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2016 18:35:44
 
Morante

 

Posts: 2268
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337

http://www.paddyandersonflamenco.com/flamenco-factory/

Take heart Peter. When I became interested in flamenco the concept was unknown in Northern Ireland. But I found a friend with interest and we started to learn together: the blind leading the blind. But the Peña we founded has gone from strength to strength, though I abandonded ship to live in Andalucía.

You can make things happen.

Mucha suerte

Morante
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2016 18:55:16
 
peter18337

 

Posts: 4
Joined: Jun. 8 2016
 

RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337

Thank you Mr. founder for the welcome and indeed, thank all of you who responded to my introductory remarks such as they were. I don't, in any way, wish to be abrasive in my comments about old and new. It's simply a personal preference and that's the long and the short of it. I admire PdL enormously. I have and listen to all of his stuff, have been to one or two of his concerts, and am always catching him on YouTube but my heart and soul lies in the traditional old school sounds of Sabicas, Escudero, Melchor de Marchena, Ricardo, Pena et al. We all know that de Lucia started out that way to but at some point he came to his own personal fork in the road and took it, obviously deciding that listening to the sound of his own drum was more compelling than what had gone on before. I don't think even he knew what the world wide impact of that would be nor that he would become the icon that he did. That's all great and God bless him for it--he deserved it.
My ears absorbed these sounds as much as anyone but..........there was something missing for me. The sounds of the traditional falsetas which defined for me the feeling of what flamenco was were missing: the moans and wails of seguirias, the beautiful strains of granadinas, the sorrow of peteneras, the joy of alegrias, the bell tones of rondena, the toe and heel of farruca.........I don't know..you can call me sentimental and maybe I am but I just don't get this from the new stuff.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2016 19:13:08
 
peter18337

 

Posts: 4
Joined: Jun. 8 2016
 

RE: New Member (in reply to Morante

Thank you Morante
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2016 19:17:50
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1762
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337

You're a lucky guy Peter!
When I became interested in flamenco there was no internet.....only a casette deck.....have fun and welcome!

Peter

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 9 2016 21:21:02
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337

Welcome aboard.
Curiously I wonder how many cante albums Sabicas put out vs. how many Cante albums PDL put out. the way I see it solo guitar albums don't really amount to flamenco legacy no matter what style they're in. Cante is flamenco more than guitar so whoever did more flamenco in that world is more flamenco. Me opinion d'pues que un seis.

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2016 4:17:14
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1762
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: New Member (in reply to Leñador

You guys can talk all you want, but I have the longest....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2016 7:54:44
 
Piwin

Posts: 3566
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: New Member (in reply to gerundino63

quote:

You guys can talk all you want, but I have the longest....


So THAT's what the caliper in your avatar is for!

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2016 8:05:44

payaso

 

Posts: 85
Joined: Dec. 7 2014
 

RE: New Member (in reply to Escribano

Brilliant!! It says it all – in seconds.. Sadly, I never managed to see the original, so I don’t know if it’s the same.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2016 10:01:49
 
Escribano

Posts: 6441
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: New Member (in reply to payaso

quote:

Brilliant!! It says it all – in seconds.. Sadly, I never managed to see the original, so I don’t know if it’s the same.


Thanks, it is the same one as I posted 10 years ago. I made it in Spain as an exercise under the mentorship of an ex-pat who worked with Tony and Ridley Scott.

I made a few more and still use them to remind me how to tell a story in 30 seconds.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2016 11:46:17
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1762
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: New Member (in reply to Piwin

lol

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2016 15:31:01
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337

quote:

You guys can talk all you want, but I have the longest....

Alright, time to put 'em on the table!

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2016 16:57:18
 
Piwin

Posts: 3566
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: New Member (in reply to Leñador

quote:

Alright, time to put 'me on the table!


You may want to edit your post and switch the order of the "e" and "m". Unless of course...ahem...

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2016 17:26:42
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337

HAHAHAHAHAHA ****in autocorrect! Yesterday I tried to text my lady "I'm gunna POP in the shower real quick." and it said "I'm gunna POOP in the shower real quick." lolololol She's said "Please dont..."

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2016 17:33:51
 
Piwin

Posts: 3566
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337

quote:

I don't think even he knew what the world wide impact of that would be nor that he would become the icon that he did.


I wonder how important Pdl's contribution really was in how flamenco changed in the second half of the twentieth century. And before anyone cries out that I need to be stoned for saying that (who said that? -said what? -Jehovah -sound of rocks being thrown) let me explain: Pdl clearly covered a huge amount of ground in his own musical journey, much more than most and he deservedly became an icon for it. And he ventured into new territory probably a good decade before the rest. However, I feel that singling him out as the sole cause for these changes, as some do, may be overdoing it. If I remember correctly, it was Antonio Canales who, when asked why modern flamenco music was so different than traditional flamenco, said that the music was different simply because the people making the music were different. I.e. the way people live and what we are concerned with have dramatically changed. Singing about working in the mines must have been quite a different experience for people actually working in the mines. And I suppose it is to be expected that a current joven flamenco hooked on facebook, Instagram and other snapchatsamajig will not express the same things as somehow who grew up in late-19th-century Spain. I guess I'm just wondering whether flamenco would really sound all that different than it does now, if, say, Paco had chosen a career in business instead of music or if, say, the fascists who assaulted him in plain daylight in the middle of Madrid had beaten him up to the point where he would have had to quit music. This really isn't meant to disparage him or his music. He's the reason I got into flamenco in the first place. I just wonder if the so-called evolution of flamenco wasn't driven by larger societal forces than just by the achievements, albeit great achievements, of just one man.

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2016 17:51:01
 
Piwin

Posts: 3566
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: New Member (in reply to Leñador

quote:

and it said "I'm gunna POOP in the shower real quick."


Lol. Seriously man, I have a graphic mind. Stop putting these images in my head!!

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2016 17:53:59
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: New Member (in reply to Piwin

Why , Leñador, does your phone have POOP in your current dictionary? insomuch as it actually chose it over and above POP...
.
Is it perhaps you type the word POOP a lot in texts ?
, or maybe you poop a lot and feel the need to share your pooping activities by texting friends and relatives ...
.
Sorry guys gotta poop now , i shouldn't have had that Piri Piri Chicken after all .....


I like poop music
What makes poopcorn poop?
I like the smell of poopcorn pooping
I want to be a poop star.
Since you metioned you were to be married , i suppose you pooped the question in a romantic way?

_____________________________

Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2016 18:25:48

payaso

 

Posts: 85
Joined: Dec. 7 2014
 

RE: New Member (in reply to Piwin

Societal changes must be very relevant, certainly, but there are probably other factors at work as well. These stem from the fact that evolution in the arts is not a linear process, moving in different directions rather than s straight line from old to new.

At least one can see that in other arts, where an initial enthusiasm to tear up the rule book (think Schoenberg and Boulez in ‘classical’ music or the many ‘isms’ of the plastic arts such as cubism, abstract expressionism, minimalism, counceptualism) and a need to claim greater sophistication and modernity can be followed by an enlightened recognition of the values of many approaches – in classical music, for example, a recognition of the value of comprehensibility and melody, in painting a renewed appreciation of figurative styles.

At the most recent flamenco show I attended a month ago, my young companions, who had been enthusiastic about flamenco, exclaimed “At last a recognizable melody” when the guitarist moved away from showily discordant twiddles to a solo Rondeña which had a lucid passage derived from Ramon Montoya.

I believe progress can revisit and incorporate the past in new and varied ways.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2016 18:45:42
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: New Member (in reply to peter18337

quote:

Why , Leñador, does your phone have POOP in your current dictionary? insomuch as it actually chose it over and above POP...

Hahahaha honestly, yeah. A common text from me is "Coming home to poop real quick." hahaha I hate pooping on jobsites

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2016 18:59:58
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