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Guitar choice advice
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Blondie#2
Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
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 RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: meknyc
- Prudencio Sáez 24
- Juan Montes 147MR
- Cordoba 45FM (more money and likely a stretch)
- Alhambra 5FP
If its any help I have played, and very nearly bought, a Prudencio Saez 24. I ended up getting the more expensive G18 from the same shop as it had a nicer bassy growl. However, I would have chosen the Prudencio 24 over the Alhambra 10 in the same shop (their top of range negra?) as the latter, like every Alhambra I have played in shops, was so poorly set up to be unplayable and even ignoring that didn't sound as good.
As Anders suggests, buying a guitar in this price range online without trying it is a bit of a crap shoot. You could get lucky, you could get a dog - quality can vary for the same make/model and actually what appears to be two guitars of same make/model may actually have been made in different factories by different 'makers', such is the complex relationship of manufacturer-distributor in Spain (Alhambra have to be one of the biggest, if not the biggest, manufacturer- reseller-distributors).
Prudencio seem to be smaller family run outfit that have some level of consistency when I did my research - Camps are another you might look at, also maybe a Navarro student model?. I do not know anything about Montes, Cordoba seem to be best known for their electro-plugin Gypsy King type models.
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Date Apr. 27 2016 7:47:22
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Mark2
Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to RobJe)
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This is great advice. I've been playing a cheap factory conde for a few decades and although it's not finished as nicely as a handmade guitar, it plays well and sounds good. I actually prefer it in some ways to my Ramirez 1a. I've seen similar ones go used for about 1,000. I have a Yamaha 171 as well, and it rarely gets out of the case. But, if I was just starting out in flamenco, I'd be happy to have the Yamaha. The idea of outgrowing a guitar-I don't get it. You play as well as you can regardless of what you are using. You get a better guitar(s) as you can and you carry on. If all I had was the Yamaha, it wouldn't hold me back. I'd be pretty much the same player. When I get a devoe it won't make me sound like Moraito, or make me able to play picado like Paco. It will make some things easier to play, and it will sound better. Not a magic bullet by any means IMO.
quote:
ORIGINAL: RobJe
Time for tough advice perhaps.
You are in New York I think. This is not some remote island far from civilisation. You are probably never more than 200 yards from the nearest flamenco guitar – perhaps lurking in a cupboard or resting under the bed.
Why buy a shiny new cheap guitar? There must be plenty of people wanting to upgrade. A new cheap guitar will soon become a used guitar of less value.
Better still buy a playable (but possibly scratched and dented) used luthier made guitar. It could transform your thinking about what a flamenco guitar should feel like to play. You might have to work hard to find one and wait a bit longer while you save a bit more money. You might need to seek out flamenco communities, guitar clubs, dealers, small adds, ebay etc to track down something. You might even enjoy the thrill of the chase. When the time comes to move on again you should be able to get your money back – or even make a profit if you buy wisely.
It is possible in London – surely in New York too.
Rob
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Date Apr. 28 2016 15:43:18
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meknyc
Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 19 2016
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RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc)
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Believe it or not, I have been having quite a bit of trouble finding an answer in NYC. Sure, there are all the big centers and some smaller boutiques; however, it is still very hard to find a good used or a new within my budget. Also, being new to this and the city imply I am still searching for the community. NYC can be quite alienating. I am heeding the advice though and seeking like-minded places.
I am inclined to agree with Anders. My experience tells me that all other things being equal a good guitar teaches better than a bad one. I come from jazz/blues where technique will only get you so far without hearing and feeling the music. I believe flamenco is even more so and that is what calls me to it. Much has been said (including in this forum), for example, about the difference between when to play a note and why to play it. Can one feel the why if he/she cannot hear it? Would a cheap guitar mask the nuances to the point that one cannot learn to hear the feeling? If that is true, then, to me outgrowing the guitar would simply be the point where one can still learn technique while missing out on the emotion. Can that happen?
That said, I do not doubt that PDL, among others, would sound fantastic playing a cigar box and a shoe string. I cannot even begin to understand the depth of his emotions. yet, to be fair, PDL did not just learn them on a guitar, cheap or not. Much more at work there.
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Date Apr. 28 2016 17:18:19
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Mark2
Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc)
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You raise some interesting points. I think as someone new to flamenco, there are so many things to learn that trump(no pun intended) the playability, and purity and variation of tone that come with a great guitar. It's not like a falseta, or anything else, can't be learned on a Yamaha. I guess I'm not sure I agree that a starter guitar would prevent someone from feeling or hearing the music. I agree that the more you like your sound, the better you are going to play. But a great guitar won't give you compas or the ability to follow a singer/dancer. In spite of that, I'd get the best guitar you can afford. I've played a lot of electric guitar over the years, and am still collecting them. They all do different things for me, and present their own challenges. This one plays better, that one holds tuning better, that one sounds great playing this style, etc.
When I was in college I played in the school jazz band. it was full of way better jazz players. I only had a strat. My reading sucked. I never felt like if I only had a 175, I would sound so much better. Maybe if I had the reading down, had no issue soloing over the changes, then maybe I'd have felt that the jazz guitar was needed to advance.
quote:
ORIGINAL: meknyc
Believe it or not, I have been having quite a bit of trouble finding an answer in NYC. Sure, there are all the big centers and some smaller boutiques; however, it is still very hard to find a good used or a new within my budget. Also, being new to this and the city imply I am still searching for the community. NYC can be quite alienating. I am heeding the advice though and seeking like-minded places.
I am inclined to agree with Anders. My experience tells me that all other things being equal a good guitar teaches better than a bad one. I come from jazz/blues where technique will only get you so far without hearing and feeling the music. I believe flamenco is even more so and that is what calls me to it. Much has been said (including in this forum), for example, about the difference between when to play a note and why to play it. Can one feel the why if he/she cannot hear it? Would a cheap guitar mask the nuances to the point that one cannot learn to hear the feeling? If that is true, then, to me outgrowing the guitar would simply be the point where one can still learn technique while missing out on the emotion. Can that happen?
That said, I do not doubt that PDL, among others, would sound fantastic playing a cigar box and a shoe string. I cannot even begin to understand the depth of his emotions. yet, to be fair, PDL did not just learn them on a guitar, cheap or not. Much more at work there.
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Date Apr. 28 2016 18:29:24
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