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meknyc

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 19 2016
 

Guitar choice advice 

Hello,
After reading up everything I could find on the site, I am still confused and would appreciate a few more words of advice while I shop for a new guitar. Let me say I have played many years but only recently begun learning - and loving - flamenco music. I am a fast learning beginner and would like to avoid purchasing a guitar that I will outgrow quickly; however, my budget is limited around 1k$.
Touring the various shops in the city left me quite disappointed with the selection. I did prefer the tonal qualities of negras and I think my only option is ordering online without trying. I know it is less than ideal.
I have narrowed my choices (through reading reviews and hearing clips) to a few:
- Prudencio Sáez 24
- Juan Montes 147MR
- Cordoba 45FM (more money and likely a stretch)
- Alhambra 5FP
I can find very little info on the Montes, though I am attracted to the handmade. Does anyone have some experience with them?
Thank you so very much.
Mek
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2016 0:48:45
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

Just a few observations. Handmade and artesanal are words used by Spanish factories just the way they feel like. It says very little if anything. All guitars have hands doing something on them somewhere in the process.

the Juan Montes website loads with an mp3 with a guitar that is very poorly tuned. Does that tell you anything?

sub 1k$ is a jungle. I hope you find your way in and especially out! There has been a ton of discussions about that over the years here on foroflamenco and normally consensus is to find a nice used guitar. But even in the used market, sub 1k$ doesnt bring you much, so the next consensus is normally to stick with what you have and save up to buy a luthier made guitar.

Good luck.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2016 6:54:54
 
Blondie#2

 

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010
 

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: meknyc
- Prudencio Sáez 24
- Juan Montes 147MR
- Cordoba 45FM (more money and likely a stretch)
- Alhambra 5FP


If its any help I have played, and very nearly bought, a Prudencio Saez 24. I ended up getting the more expensive G18 from the same shop as it had a nicer bassy growl. However, I would have chosen the Prudencio 24 over the Alhambra 10 in the same shop (their top of range negra?) as the latter, like every Alhambra I have played in shops, was so poorly set up to be unplayable and even ignoring that didn't sound as good.

As Anders suggests, buying a guitar in this price range online without trying it is a bit of a crap shoot. You could get lucky, you could get a dog - quality can vary for the same make/model and actually what appears to be two guitars of same make/model may actually have been made in different factories by different 'makers', such is the complex relationship of manufacturer-distributor in Spain (Alhambra have to be one of the biggest, if not the biggest, manufacturer- reseller-distributors).

Prudencio seem to be smaller family run outfit that have some level of consistency when I did my research - Camps are another you might look at, also maybe a Navarro student model?. I do not know anything about Montes, Cordoba seem to be best known for their electro-plugin Gypsy King type models.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2016 7:47:22
 
malin819

 

Posts: 9
Joined: Mar. 4 2016
 

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

Navarro student
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2016 12:13:58
 
meknyc

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 19 2016
 

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

Thank you.
I could stick with what I have, but it would be flamenco on a Martin. For 3 months, I have been using a loaner Cordoba GK Studio that I must return. I am really buying my first nylon.
It sounds like I am better off buying a cheap one, learn technique and forget about its sound until I can afford the 2k or even a stop in Huelva.
Back to drawing board and saving. Thanks.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2016 13:15:32
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

Your dead on, until you can afford a 2k plus your better off in the $300-$500 range. I made the mistake of dropping $800 on my first nylon and its way worse than the $200 Córdoba I have now.

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2016 13:56:10
 
koenie17

Posts: 438
Joined: Feb. 25 2011
From: España

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

Check this one out

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=290562&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=&tmode=&smode=&s=#291549

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2016 14:08:04
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3046
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to Leñador

quote:

I made the mistake of dropping $800 on my first nylon and its way worse than the $200 Córdoba I have now.


You left your Kremona at the beach already?

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2016 14:10:55
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

Haha no, I have lots of cheap nylons, the Kremona is an anomaly, it shouldn't be as good as it is for the price.
quote:

Check this one out

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=290562&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=&tmode=&smode=&s=#291549

That looks like quite a deal actually!

_____________________________

\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2016 14:59:48
 
ngiorgio

 

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

Hard to beat a Francisco Navarro student model at your price point. I think his son Marlon is making that model with his name on the label. Your screen name might imply that you are in NYC. If so, check out Luthier Music. Tony always has some nice flamencos in stock.

The models you have mentioned can vary from pretty decent to not very good. Out of that group the P.S. 24 may be the best "gamble". Trouble is, when new to flamenco it is very difficult to know what is good and what is not. Neck angle, action, and neck profile, along with how the guitar plays and sounds play an important role in instrument selection.

As has been mentioned $1000. is sort of a no man's land in the search for a good flamenco guitar. In the used market, some good ones can be found but you really need to know what to look for in terms of set-up and playability.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2016 15:56:30
 
Cervantes

 

Posts: 440
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to ngiorgio

I was in your situation about a year ago. I was looking at getting a Navarro but I asked a local luthier that I had bought a nice classical guitar from and he had a flamenco that he offered for $1000 which was half the retail price. It has served its purpose but I fell I have outgrown it and want something more rewarding to play. It's true that it's hard to know what guitar is best for you until you have played for a good amount of time. I would not spend too much for a starter guitar. The most important thing is that it is setup properly and easy to play. Plan to pay a luthier to to do that. Also check for used on local ads like Craigslist and be open to driving some distance if you find something attractive. Also check out Mundo Flamenco in Germany. My understanding is they select the best guitars coming from the factories. There is a Sanchis Lopez in the classified section of the web site for a good price if you can get them to ship it to you. I would ask for some sample audio of it. Not the same as being there and playing it but better than nothing

Good luck

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2016 17:34:15
 
meknyc

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 19 2016
 

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

I took a stroll to check out Luthier Music. Nice people and some amazing guitars, but the price range was a lot higher than I can afford. Especially, once I consider that - as it was correctly stated - I may have a hard time even telling what's good for me.
The net result of the visit is that after playing a Camps Primera and a Sanchis Buleria (both out of range for now) I am even more depressed by my budget.

I also checked out Mundo Flamenco. Nothing in my price range will ship to the US.

Thanks for all the input.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2016 20:29:53
 
ngiorgio

 

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

Since you are in NYC, check out Ramon Amira. He teaches flamenco and also sells instruments. You may be able to learn much from him.

http://ramonamiraguitars.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2016 21:10:31
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

Some years ago, all threads on this subject ended with saying to get this cheap Yamaha, play the hell out of it and save for a decent guitar.

What happened to all the Yam lovers. Did they all get tired of their Yams?

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 8:23:54
 
meknyc

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 19 2016
 

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

Anders, the cheap Yam threads were where I started. Reading a bit more and considering I have been playing a top line acoustic for 15 years, I thought that I would end up outgrowing the Yam before I can save enough for a sizable upgrade.

On that argument, a new 172 Yam sells for about 400$ and it will then be 2-3 years before I can afford something like a Sanchis. Jumping to 1k (which I can do now) would set me back only by a short while longer - especially since it would have better resale value. My struggle - aside whether I should spend the next 3 years hearing a cheap Yam vs a slightly better one - is whether I could learn more effectively on a Cordoba, PS or Navarro (trying one today).

One suggestion was that I get a classicalCordoba C3M for 190$, add a golpeador and play it into the ground.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 13:07:27
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 698
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

Time for tough advice perhaps.

You are in New York I think. This is not some remote island far from civilisation. You are probably never more than 200 yards from the nearest flamenco guitar – perhaps lurking in a cupboard or resting under the bed.

Why buy a shiny new cheap guitar? There must be plenty of people wanting to upgrade. A new cheap guitar will soon become a used guitar of less value.

Better still buy a playable (but possibly scratched and dented) used luthier made guitar. It could transform your thinking about what a flamenco guitar should feel like to play. You might have to work hard to find one and wait a bit longer while you save a bit more money. You might need to seek out flamenco communities, guitar clubs, dealers, small adds, ebay etc to track down something. You might even enjoy the thrill of the chase. When the time comes to move on again you should be able to get your money back – or even make a profit if you buy wisely.

It is possible in London – surely in New York too.

Rob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 15:08:04
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Land of Daniel Boone

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

There is a Sanchis Lopes 2f Flamenco in the classifieds. It is in the UK but the price seems good. Since you mentioned you like negras, you should look into Kremona guitars. They have a flamenco line. Guitar Center sells them. I have played a few and they are quite good for the money.

http://kremonausa.com/en/eshop/category/3
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 15:09:50
 
Mark2

Posts: 1520
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to RobJe

This is great advice. I've been playing a cheap factory conde for a few decades and although it's not finished as nicely as a handmade guitar, it plays well and sounds good. I actually prefer it in some ways to my Ramirez 1a. I've seen similar ones go used for about 1,000. I have a Yamaha 171 as well, and it rarely gets out of the case. But, if I was just starting out in flamenco, I'd be happy to have the Yamaha. The idea of outgrowing a guitar-I don't get it. You play as well as you can regardless of what you are using. You get a better guitar(s) as you can and you carry on. If all I had was the Yamaha, it wouldn't hold me back. I'd be pretty much the same player. When I get a devoe it won't make me sound like Moraito, or make me able to play picado like Paco. It will make some things easier to play, and it will sound better. Not a magic bullet by any means IMO.
quote:

ORIGINAL: RobJe

Time for tough advice perhaps.

You are in New York I think. This is not some remote island far from civilisation. You are probably never more than 200 yards from the nearest flamenco guitar – perhaps lurking in a cupboard or resting under the bed.

Why buy a shiny new cheap guitar? There must be plenty of people wanting to upgrade. A new cheap guitar will soon become a used guitar of less value.

Better still buy a playable (but possibly scratched and dented) used luthier made guitar. It could transform your thinking about what a flamenco guitar should feel like to play. You might have to work hard to find one and wait a bit longer while you save a bit more money. You might need to seek out flamenco communities, guitar clubs, dealers, small adds, ebay etc to track down something. You might even enjoy the thrill of the chase. When the time comes to move on again you should be able to get your money back – or even make a profit if you buy wisely.

It is possible in London – surely in New York too.

Rob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 15:43:18
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

quote:

The idea of outgrowing a guitar-I don't get it. You play as well as you can regardless of what you are using. You get a better guitar(s) as you can and you carry on. If all I had was the Yamaha, it wouldn't hold me back. I'd be pretty much the same player. When I get a devoe it won't make me sound like Moraito, or make me able to play picado like Paco. It will make some things easier to play, and it will sound better. Not a magic bullet by any means IMO.


I disagree. A better guitar is a better teacher than a bad guitar. Instruments actually teach you a lot.
Cheap guitars may sound well, but normally they only have very few sounds. They sound one way and nothing else. voice is onedirectional and dynamics are very poor.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 16:03:33
 
Mark2

Posts: 1520
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to Anders Eliasson

That's interesting. I'd have to agree about the tones but how does one know when they have outgrown a guitar?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

quote:

The idea of outgrowing a guitar-I don't get it. You play as well as you can regardless of what you are using. You get a better guitar(s) as you can and you carry on. If all I had was the Yamaha, it wouldn't hold me back. I'd be pretty much the same player. When I get a devoe it won't make me sound like Moraito, or make me able to play picado like Paco. It will make some things easier to play, and it will sound better. Not a magic bullet by any means IMO.


I disagree. A better guitar is a better teacher than a bad guitar. Instruments actually teach you a lot.
Cheap guitars may sound well, but normally they only have very few sounds. They sound one way and nothing else. voice is onedirectional and dynamics are very poor.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 16:30:49
 
meknyc

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 19 2016
 

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

Believe it or not, I have been having quite a bit of trouble finding an answer in NYC. Sure, there are all the big centers and some smaller boutiques; however, it is still very hard to find a good used or a new within my budget. Also, being new to this and the city imply I am still searching for the community. NYC can be quite alienating. I am heeding the advice though and seeking like-minded places.

I am inclined to agree with Anders. My experience tells me that all other things being equal a good guitar teaches better than a bad one. I come from jazz/blues where technique will only get you so far without hearing and feeling the music. I believe flamenco is even more so and that is what calls me to it. Much has been said (including in this forum), for example, about the difference between when to play a note and why to play it. Can one feel the why if he/she cannot hear it? Would a cheap guitar mask the nuances to the point that one cannot learn to hear the feeling? If that is true, then, to me outgrowing the guitar would simply be the point where one can still learn technique while missing out on the emotion. Can that happen?

That said, I do not doubt that PDL, among others, would sound fantastic playing a cigar box and a shoe string. I cannot even begin to understand the depth of his emotions. yet, to be fair, PDL did not just learn them on a guitar, cheap or not. Much more at work there.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 17:18:19
 
Mark2

Posts: 1520
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

You raise some interesting points. I think as someone new to flamenco, there are so many things to learn that trump(no pun intended) the playability, and purity and variation of tone that come with a great guitar. It's not like a falseta, or anything else, can't be learned on a Yamaha. I guess I'm not sure I agree that a starter guitar would prevent someone from feeling or hearing the music. I agree that the more you like your sound, the better you are going to play. But a great guitar won't give you compas or the ability to follow a singer/dancer. In spite of that, I'd get the best guitar you can afford. I've played a lot of electric guitar over the years, and am still collecting them. They all do different things for me, and present their own challenges. This one plays better, that one holds tuning better, that one sounds great playing this style, etc.
When I was in college I played in the school jazz band. it was full of way better jazz players. I only had a strat. My reading sucked. I never felt like if I only had a 175, I would sound so much better. Maybe if I had the reading down, had no issue soloing over the changes, then maybe I'd have felt that the jazz guitar was needed to advance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meknyc

Believe it or not, I have been having quite a bit of trouble finding an answer in NYC. Sure, there are all the big centers and some smaller boutiques; however, it is still very hard to find a good used or a new within my budget. Also, being new to this and the city imply I am still searching for the community. NYC can be quite alienating. I am heeding the advice though and seeking like-minded places.

I am inclined to agree with Anders. My experience tells me that all other things being equal a good guitar teaches better than a bad one. I come from jazz/blues where technique will only get you so far without hearing and feeling the music. I believe flamenco is even more so and that is what calls me to it. Much has been said (including in this forum), for example, about the difference between when to play a note and why to play it. Can one feel the why if he/she cannot hear it? Would a cheap guitar mask the nuances to the point that one cannot learn to hear the feeling? If that is true, then, to me outgrowing the guitar would simply be the point where one can still learn technique while missing out on the emotion. Can that happen?

That said, I do not doubt that PDL, among others, would sound fantastic playing a cigar box and a shoe string. I cannot even begin to understand the depth of his emotions. yet, to be fair, PDL did not just learn them on a guitar, cheap or not. Much more at work there.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 18:29:24
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

What kind of player are you? What are your strongest and favorite techniques? Are you playing for yourself in your bedroom, for a dance class or solo shows? These are things you figure out over time that will affect what type of guitar you'd choose when you can afford a nice one. I'd vote for the Yam till you mature in the genre a bit. I have a cheap Kremona that's pretty nice too.......

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 18:58:03
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1796
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to RobJe

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobJe
Why buy a shiny new cheap guitar? There must be plenty of people wanting to upgrade. A new cheap guitar will soon become a used guitar of less value.

Better still buy a playable (but possibly scratched and dented) used luthier made guitar.

I'm definetly with Rob on this. Go 2nd hand.

For my first flamenco I travelled to Paris and visited every guitar store on the Rue de Rome. I played several factory Condes, including ones at 2000 euros. They were very playable, but I didn't love the sound. I tried a 2nd hand peg head at 3000 - it was gorgeous but beyond my budget. Then into the shop walks a gypsy teacher / performer from the St Dennis area shopping for strings. He invited me to his house where he had a negra and a blanca from Grenada. Just 1000 euros and a far better sound than the factory Condes at twice the price. For a first flamenco that was great guitar for me. But it took some luck, I was just in the right place at the right time.

_____________________________

Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 20:04:47
 
Cervantes

 

Posts: 440
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

I think ideal is a used guitar that you can test out before buying.
Most people selling used guitars are willing to lower the the price to move it.
You will get the most for money and possibly higher resale.
Yes it can be difficult to find, you need to keeping searching and be patient.

_____________________________

Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 20:26:17
 
meknyc

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 19 2016
 

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

Patience when looking for my first nylon? Now you are really asking for a lot.
Pounding the pavement looking for used ones as we speak.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 20:35:55
 
Goldwinghai

Posts: 184
Joined: Mar. 17 2015
From: Virginia USA

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

Have you checked NY craigslist? There is a Ignacio Rozas flamenco guitar on sale for $700. It's a f1e model. The owner said he paid $1200 in Spain in 2000. It's been on Craigslist for a while. You may want to check this out.

https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/msg/5515285677.html
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 21:53:50
 
Piwin

Posts: 2729
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to meknyc

quote:

Would a cheap guitar mask the nuances to the point that one cannot learn to hear the feeling? If that is true, then, to me outgrowing the guitar would simply be the point where one can still learn technique while missing out on the emotion. Can that happen?


I honestly don't think this is as much of a problem as you seem to think. The more common problem is players starting out with top-notch guitars but being so absorbed by technique that they forget about the actual music. A problem you clearly don't seem to have. I suppose it depends on whether you're more interested in solo guitar or accompaniment. Put it this way: flamenco guitarists have been accompanying with crappy guitars for generations and still manage to reach profound emotional depths. It's more about interaction than the actual physical qualities of the guitar in that case. For solo guitar, the physical qualities of the guitar are probably more important (not saying you can't outgrow a guitar in both cases of course, just that you probably reach that point faster in solo guitar than in accompaniment IMHO). Though I guess it depends on how fast you learn and how much time you can devote to it, but nailing the basic techniques and, more importantly, finding your way around the main palos and the "rules" of accompaniment should keep you busy more than long enough before outgrowing your guitar becomes a real issue.

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El modo de dar una vez en el clavo es dar cien veces en la herradura.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 22:01:28
 
meknyc

Posts: 13
Joined: Apr. 19 2016
 

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to Goldwinghai

quote:

Have you checked NY craigslist? There is a Ignacio Rozas flamenco guitar on sale for $700. It's a f1e model. The owner said he paid $1200 in Spain in 2000. It's been on Craigslist for a while. You may want to check this out.

https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/msg/5515285677.html


Thanks. I did check NY, NJ and CT. I actually contacted the owner of the Rozas a few days ago asking to see/play it, but got no response. Hard to figure out what the guitar is worth since I can't find much info.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2016 23:43:43
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1521
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Guitar choice advice (in reply to Mark2

I played for 15 years on an Amalio Burguet 2a.
Always satisfied, one day my frend came up with a Conde A26, I played it and after 5 min. I thought, now I am f***ed, to sound and play so much better on my own guitar takes me three years of more study. It really felt that way.....
That was the moment I start looking for a better guitar and I was "grown out" of my Amalio Burguet 2a.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2016 7:21:34
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