yam/castillo face lift

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fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

yam/castillo face lift

Picked up a used Yam 172 SF couple years ago. Thought I'd have fun and re do the sound board finish.
So sanded it down and FP the top. Came out really good since its been about 30 some years since I FP anything.
Definitely got more volume and trebles better. Total investment 185.95 includes 5.95 rosette decal. I had fun.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2016 13:48:10

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: yam face lift (in reply to fyr4efect)

i did something similar once .. much better sound ....

did you take the bridge off?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2016 14:37:11

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: yam face lift (in reply to El Kiko)

Didn't take it off. I doubt if the Chinese use hide glue so I figured I'd just wreck it if I tried to remove it.
I did the experiment on the Yam to see how it would go. I'm now doing the same to my Castillo blanc.
The existing FP was a lot easier to remove than the lacquer on the Yam, and the rosette didn't come off when sanding. HA..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2016 21:07:13

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: yam face lift (in reply to fyr4efect)

I was wondering , as i did that a while ago to a guitar and didnt take the bridge off , but had a lot of problems getting around it ...
he sound of the guitar improved massively , but my finishing ...hmmm
not good at all ... at best ..

I always thought ...i'll do that again someday ..take a fine layer off .. all my mistakes .., and try again ..
maybe ill find the time this summer .........

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2016 22:35:10

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: yam face lift (in reply to El Kiko)

Sanded Castillo.
I use to work for a Luthier in the Late 70's. I did a bunch of FP back then.
Just wanted to see if I remembered how.

Theres a ton of how to FP videos. Michael Thames has a good one.

Cheers

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2016 23:17:20

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: yam face lift (in reply to fyr4efect)

I did look at some videos of Michael Thames that you mentioned

Q.. how did you manage to sand around the bridge so well ...
i always trying to sand with the direction or the grain ,,...

on the neck side i put a thin metal ruler up against the neck so i could sand without hitting the neck wood , but the bridge is like against the grain ,, if you know what i mean ...

I actually fine plained the laquer off it was so thick then sanded the rest down ... laquer has really got to be the worst for an acoustic guitar as it is so rigid ...it kills all the bounce and frequencies ..and well everything really ..

you dont have a before and after sound clip of you r yamaha do you ?

heres a clip of a guitar i did a similar thing to ....

At this point of my experiment ...i had , maybe finished sanding ..and it had no golpeadores or F.P. or anything on ...it was just a test to see how much i had destroyed or improved the guitar ...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2016 12:29:53

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: yam face lift (in reply to El Kiko)

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Kiko

I actually fine plained the laquer off it was so thick then sanded the rest down ... laquer has really got to be the worst for an acoustic guitar as it is so rigid ...it kills all the bounce and frequencies ..and well everything really ..

How do you know it was a lacquer finish rather than urethane or polyester?

A properly applied lacquer is finish is very thin. You remove a heavy finish and replace it with a thin one to the benefit of the guitar and then jump to an erroneous conclusion about lacquer (or whatever finish was on your guitar). There are many reasons for someone to dislike lacquer like the toxic fumes, expensive equipment required for application, fire hazard, etc. but your statement about the effect on the guitar's voice is simply wrong.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2016 13:51:42

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: yam face lift (in reply to El Kiko)

Sorry El Kiko, no sound clips of the yam. But it has a better voice than before I FP.
It was a fun project. I realize it was like putting a chandelier in a mobile home.
I'm sure removing the bridge would have been easier for finishing,
but at this point it is above my pay grade. Don't feel bad if its not perfect. I have seen
guitars made by "professionals " with sanding scratches they polished over.
I sent a guitar with a "non FP " finish to GV Rubio in LA to FP the top. Couldn't tell that he didn't take off the bridge.
The sound wasn't much different, but it looked great.
Still working on the Castillo. It's coming along nicely. Its not without close inspection flaws but I'm still working on it.
You ask 10 people on how they polish you will probably get 10 different answers.
Sage advise from a used car salesman, "there's an ass for every seat "
BTW the only reason I am redoing the top on the Castillo is I put a nasty scratch in it that just kept bothering me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2016 14:55:17

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: yam face lift (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

jshelton5040

well your right,, maybe a bit heavy handed , but correct in so much as .. i didnt know what it was , i just knew it was thick , as i took a small piece off ...
it was thick
it was tough
and it was orange .
and it came from a factory, possibly in the region of Alicante

i have to stand by my statement on how it killed the sound of the guitar , as that was the reason I started to take it off in the first place ...
and now it is louder and has much more treble ., so it was a bit of a gamble on my part ,, it could have went the other way ... i suppose
however it didnt ..
the only thing i do regret is that i didnt make it look very nice ..
but .
i could still redo it again someday

perhaps , as a luthier, i could even get advice from you , yourself .

fyr4efect
nothing wrong with a bit of bling or a chandelier in a mobile home ...
i was wondering why you were redoing the Castillo ...
i still see it seems very clean around the bridge ,,,,

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2016 15:34:53

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: yam face lift (in reply to El Kiko)

I'm about done with the FP. Need to put the tap plate and string guard.
Was very tedious sanding around around a bridge. Did the Castillo with a small hand block sander and I used a beveled piece of woodlike material wrapped with cotton cloth to polish against the bridge.
It came out very good but not as good as if the bridge was put on after of course. I'll attach a pic when its done. It looks 100% better than before and the annoying scratch gone along with other small scratches.
I just hope I don't screw it up putting on the tap plate.

Here's a link that might be helpful
http://www.lmii.com/french-polish

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2016 1:39:49

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: yam face lift (in reply to fyr4efect)

Rosette Sticker!

Where is Ricardo?

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Lacquer is a great finish, the right thickness it's good.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2016 8:37:29

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: yam face lift (in reply to estebanana)

I was looking for a whole guitar top sticker, could only find a rosette. I think I will put a sound port sticker on it, really class it up.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2016 14:16:27

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: yam face lift (in reply to fyr4efect)

Or maybe a whammy bar sticker ...just a thought
.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2016 17:28:08

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: yam face lift (in reply to El Kiko)

I'll tell you my hat goes off to all the luthiers who make their living doing this.
I'd go broke for as long as this top is taking.
Cheers to you luthiers.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 15 2016 2:41:10

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: yam face lift (in reply to El Kiko)

tried to send an audio but it said not supported so I'll see if I can figure another way.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 15 2016 15:53:59

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: yam face lift (in reply to El Kiko)

quote:

it was thick
it was tough
and it was orange .
and it came from a factory, possibly in the region of Alicante

That sounds like polyurethane which is what they use the most.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 16 2016 15:11:50

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: yam face lift (in reply to El Kiko)

quote:

and it was orange .

Conde, obviously.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2016 20:36:51

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: yam face lift (in reply to El Kiko)

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Kiko
it is louder and has much more treble ., so it was a bit of a gamble on my part ,, it could have went the other way ...

What are the chances of it going the other way? You removed a thick layer of solid gloop, sounds like a great idea, wouldn't you win every time (so long as you take care not to drop a hammer on it or something like that)?

Now you guys have got me thinking about my blanca

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 22 2016 6:51:08

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: yam face lift (in reply to Dudnote)

quote:

What are the chances of it going the other way?

well not being a luthier ,,, i just didnt know what was gonna happen ... it sounded logical , but in practice .....
anyway it did work out just fine , i would like to do it again ..

I often thought of getting a cheapo classical guitar and trying to sand , file and make into a negra , i suppose , just for the hell of it , and to see how it would react to lowering bridge and sanding the top away ...

Anders , yes it probably was polyurethane....

Estevan , yes it probably was a Conde

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 23 2016 0:21:11

fyr4efect

Posts: 50
Joined: Apr. 6 2014
From: Arizona

RE: yam face lift (in reply to fyr4efect)

Put the tap plate on and strung it up. I am very happy with the final outcome of this project.
Pics are from my smart phone so not the best detail, but the finish came out very well and now no scratches.
Still sounds great.
Thx all for comments and insights
Added some new pics. also re did the back.
Mike

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 24 2016 13:43:57