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RE: All the Solea   You are logged in as Guest
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Piwin

Posts: 2349
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

The Juan Talega/Eduardo el de la Malena soleares posted by estebanana near the beginning of this thread was transcribed and analyzed by Carol Whitney in the June 1974 edition of Soundboard. Ricardo cited this as an informative source. The transcription and analysis only covers the first two of the three coplas. Coincidentally this is as far as Piwin goes in his post above.


Thanks for those links!
I'm still working my way through it, as time permits, editing my original post as I go. It will probably be useful only to me but it's an interesting exercise. Now comes the hard part where I try to match each solea with the styles on Norman's site...

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L'homme qui trouve douce sa patrie est encore un tendre débutant ; celui pour lequel tout sol est comme son sol natal est déjà fort ; mais celui-ci est parfait pour qui le monde entier est comme un pays étranger.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2016 16:36:43
 
Escribano

Posts: 5922
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: All the Solea (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

And you are to be commended for bringing the subject up, Stephen. In doing so, you have managed to elicit the engagement of a wider group of Foro members than I can recall being engaged on a particular topic in a long time. Bravo!


Seconded.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2016 17:16:41
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Piwin

Indeed BIG OLE to Stephansan!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2016 18:02:50
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11280
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Piwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

quote:

The Juan Talega/Eduardo el de la Malena soleares posted by estebanana near the beginning of this thread was transcribed and analyzed by Carol Whitney in the June 1974 edition of Soundboard. Ricardo cited this as an informative source. The transcription and analysis only covers the first two of the three coplas. Coincidentally this is as far as Piwin goes in his post above.


Thanks for those links!
I'm still working my way through it, as time permits, editing my original post as I go. It will probably be useful only to me but it's an interesting exercise. Now comes the hard part where I try to match each solea with the styles on Norman's site...



Really? Would it help to point out the actual performance is used as some EXAMPLES??

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2016 18:35:37

Piwin

Posts: 2349
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RE: All the Solea (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Really? Would it help to point out the actual performance is used as some EXAMPLES??


Yeah I saw that for one solea. Still have to go through the rest of it though.

_____________________________

L'homme qui trouve douce sa patrie est encore un tendre débutant ; celui pour lequel tout sol est comme son sol natal est déjà fort ; mais celui-ci est parfait pour qui le monde entier est comme un pays étranger.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2016 18:43:26
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11280
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Piwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

quote:

Really? Would it help to point out the actual performance is used as some EXAMPLES??


Yeah I saw that for one solea. Still have to go through the rest of it though.


there are 3 from that performance, including your one that repeats, and one letra he does with Morao, I assume is probably the same style (your video of the performance is actually blocked for copyright in USA, so I figured this all out by intuition )

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2016 19:08:01

Piwin

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2016 20:51:04
 
Escribano

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2016 21:25:22

Piwin

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2016 21:53:30

Piwin

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 2 2016 21:56:22

Piwin

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2016 16:29:49

Piwin

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2016 16:36:54
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Piwin

ohhhh Bastian Bacan nice!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2016 16:48:37
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11280
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Piwin



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2016 17:32:54
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11280
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From: Washington DC

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Ricardo



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2016 18:08:55
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11280
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From: Washington DC

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Ricardo





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2016 18:16:33
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5779
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Piwin

What do you guys want with all these youtube links?
What do you want to say with it?
Personally, i find youtube links to kill discussions if they are not followed up with why they are uploaded, what it is etc.

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See the guitars I have for sale here:
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2016 18:49:53
 
Escribano

Posts: 5922
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

What do you guys want with all these youtube links?
What do you want to say with it?


I'm a bit confused as well. I can watch YouTube videos anytime I want, and often do.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2016 19:13:32
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Piwin

quote:

What do you guys want with all these youtube links?
What do you want to say with it?
Personally, i find youtube links to kill discussions if they are not followed up with why they are uploaded, what it is etc.

I'm with that. That would really be ideal.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2016 20:08:36
 
c

Posts: 316
Joined: Nov. 20 2005
From: manitoba, canada

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Ricardo

I wondered about the tuning in the one with
Diego El Cigala
and some seem like solea por bulerias and are called solea

I am enjoying the examples presented
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2016 20:17:11
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11280
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

What do you guys want with all these youtube links?
What do you want to say with it?
Personally, i find youtube links to kill discussions if they are not followed up with why they are uploaded, what it is etc.



Sorry, hoped it would be obvious, coming from me based on things said before, that the links I posted are of modern Solea styles not to be found in the tradtion as per Normans library, but rather brand new creations, most of which composed by guitar players. I admit I could be wrong, if someone is hearing any of those based on specific styles...I only notice bits and pieces from the traditions and have to say these are examples of the direction Solea could have gone, but seem to have hit evolutionary dead ends.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2016 20:27:59
 
c

Posts: 316
Joined: Nov. 20 2005
From: manitoba, canada

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Ricardo

Good answer Ricardo
Some very creative music here
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2016 20:43:20
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5779
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Piwin

Ok.. thank you. Now i get the intentions and will give it a second listen. 1st time my confusion was kind of tapping my ears. :)

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Fine flamenco and classical guitars: www.eliassonguitars.com
Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2016 21:09:33
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11280
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: All the Solea (in reply to c

quote:

ORIGINAL: c

Good answer Ricardo
Some very creative music here


You asked about Cigala...I think it's Diego del Morao's same old modified Rondeña Solea that he has done on video numerous times.

The singer on the Manolo Sanlucar track I posted above is named Indio Gitano, also El Moro, his real name is Bernardo Silva Carrasco, born in Caceres, so he is Gitano de Extremadura (in other words, non andaluz). He appears in the Rito y Geografia episode of Beni de Cadiz singing some buleria, and very inexcusably, gets a labeled as "manolete" and in the book bio with the DVD they say he is only a "cantaor festero y palmero", extremely derogatory for such a heavy weight singer IMO. I once thought he was 3 different guys LOL. But his voice, even back in early 70's, is one of the most unique and recognizable in flamenco history IMO. For me, he is a good example of a "cuadrao" singer, compared to most others from before his time. Here he is singing text book versions of Joaquin de Paula 1,2, and 3 in order, almost exactly cuadrao. (Second line gets stretched over into the 3rd compas). It's obvious he trained singing for dancers.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 3 2016 21:21:17
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7518
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to Piwin

Not that I'm the authority, but from here on I hope we can preface our YouTube examples with some guidelines about what we are listening to and why.

I posted a lot of video in the beginning because I was trying to rally a thread together, but now it is apparent that each poster and reader has specific things in mind. Try to prepare the viewer/ reader with a sentence or two about what is on your mind when you post an example. That way we can look for the clues you want to point to.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 4 2016 4:33:52
 
estebanana

 

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RE: All the Solea (in reply to Piwin

Drat, Indio Gitano vid is blocked in J-pan
never happened before.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 4 2016 7:31:33
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5779
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: All the Solea (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Not that I'm the authority, but from here on I hope we can preface our YouTube examples with some guidelines about what we are listening to and why.

I posted a lot of video in the beginning because I was trying to rally a thread together, but now it is apparent that each poster and reader has specific things in mind. Try to prepare the viewer/ reader with a sentence or two about what is on your mind when you post an example. That way we can look for the clues you want to point to.


Agreed.

_____________________________

See the guitars I have for sale here:
http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com.es/p/guitars-for-sale.html

Fine flamenco and classical guitars: www.eliassonguitars.com
Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 4 2016 7:39:40
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11280
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: All the Solea (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Drat, Indio Gitano vid is blocked in J-pan
never happened before.


If you could investigate any of his related vids por Solea, it's pretty much the same deal going on, very clear and cuadrao style. I don't want to keep sending you links that you might not see, but for example the live black and white vid with Juan Salazar on guitar is again, Joaquin 1,2, buleria corta, Joaquin 3, and buleria remate.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 4 2016 11:56:03
 
estebanana

 

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RE: All the Solea (in reply to Piwin

I know Indio Gitano , I have Spanish friend who is really into it so by association I have heard quite a few recordings. I always thought he had a slight bull walrus kind of rutting sound. But not in bad way. I like him solea pa' escuchar or solea pr buleria which ever way they say it Extremadura

I can find another IG on You tube or iTunes.

I did listen to the Cigala which I have heard before. Not exactly deeply satisfying for me,but I don't dislike it. I know diehard older guys who call that kind of thing 'Post Camaronian Crooning'. I call it music you want to play when you are trying to get hot girl to settle into the mood. I hate to reduce art to that, but I'm not above doing that to be honest. :) It seemed like when I saw Cigala in person a lot of folks were gonna be 'getting busy' after the show.

I also like the guitar playing, I would like to hear solea in that key ,but more older style cante lines, I think that would be very cool.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 4 2016 14:12:31
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11280
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: All the Solea (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I also like the guitar playing, I would like to hear solea in that key ,but more older style cante lines, I think that would be very cool.


Flamenco Flamenco by Saura, Montse Cortes performance.



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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 4 2016 20:23:47
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