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RE: Picado is Impossible!
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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 RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Florian)
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Grisha,
sure, I'll do my best...although I think Henrik plays picado a lot faster than me!
When I first started to play picado (about 5 years ago--before that, I was always free stroke or pick), my fingers would just not go fast. It was like a car stuck in 1st gear. I experimented a little, trying to figure out how to do it.
One thing I did was to play a note, say with i, and immediately play the m note. The effect is similiar to a flam, which is when a drummer hits both sticks almost simultaneously. The 2nd note is staggered slightly. Another description of the sound is an engine just getting started. Ba-DUM, ba-DUM, ba-DUM.
The two notes are part of the same motion really. You kind of play the i and during its motion already are moving the m.
Anyway, it's not even really "playing" at this point, it's more like an effect or just a motion. However, you can consider it that what you are doing is really fast, like 32nd notes at 100 or more. You can try to use this as a bridge to fast picado. All you have to do is add another note, recycle i at the end of the lick. If you can play 3 notes fast, then you can probably play lots of notes fast.
Hope this helps!
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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 18 2006 4:32:40
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Florian)
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This reminds me of some other piano pedagogy/theory I was studying (http://members.aol.com/cc88m/PianoBook.html).
It's a way to look at arpeggios that is different than most people. Say you play a block chord pima. Now, look at the arpeggio pima. They can be looked at as very similiar, in that the block chord is the arpeggio played at infinite speed. Or the arpeggio can be looked at as the block chord played in a staggered or slowed-down manner. The difference between an arpeggio and a chord is called phase angle. In the picado example, the phase angle for a very fast im is small, or a slow im would be large.
I like this idea, because a lot of people think of certain arpeggios as fast, but if you think about them this way (or chunk them), then they are really no more faster than a block chord, just a little modified. So if you can play block chords at a certain speed, with a certain amount of practice, you can play pima arpeggios at very close to the same speed.
It also follows that a very fast arpeggio, like a roll, is not really "fast", but just a staggered chord.
Now, to look at the example of tremolo, if you put all four fingers on one string, and play it at the same time, that is rather similiar to a block chord. And if you increased the phase angle (from 0), you could then obtain a fast tremolo chunk.
This might help some people who think that their fingers don't have sufficient speed.
On the other hand, my current thinking is more about focus and slow practice and foundation work. Your post about the tremolo and slow practice has meshed with things Todd and certain other good players have told me--about control.
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Date Jan. 18 2006 4:53:30
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rombsix
Posts: 7813
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon
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RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Florian)
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Whoa guys! It looks to me like this thread moved far off from the subject but just came back to being about picado. So then you guys are saying that PDL can go as fast as 250 bpm 16ths or even more? I think I will never be able to get to this speed. I think that anatomically, my fingers just won't move that fast.
By the way, can any of you dudes explain to me the true difference between FAST staccato picados and FAST non-staccato picados (both of which are done via rest stroke)? I suppose a video or audio clip would help immensely. Everybody just keeps talking about staccato, but when I practice picado really really slow, I can feel the difference (between staccato and non-staccato). However, when I play faster, both staccato and non-staccato sound exactly the same. I guess when I go faster, I just (unconsciously) stop playing staccato (keeping in mind that ALL my picado is in rest stroke totally). What do you guys have to say about that?
Another question: I noticed that in the Francisco Sanchez PDL DVD (with Aranjuez and PDL's biography) as well as in other PDL videos, PDL executes a SUPER FAST picado (usually on only one string) that sound very much like alternate picking. He usually does that on the high notes of the first string (high E). I doubt that that is IM picado. I guess that is AMI picado (just like a tremolo) or something else (maybe he whips a pick out of his pocket when the camera is pointing a the two other guitarists or something!  ). Any ideas of how he does that? I tried doing it with a classical four-note (PAMI) tremolo on the high E string, but it just does not sound as uniform or fast. I heard Jeronimo Maya do it in an MP3 somebody posted in one of the discussion rooms here.
Please let me know what you think.
Rombsix
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Date Jan. 18 2006 7:46:32
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ron.M
I'm still too thick to understand this..
Why are 16th notes 4 to a beat?
Why aren't they called "quarter notes" (= 4 to a beat)?
Because you are dividing the bar as well as the beat (or 'measure', as they say in the US).
Just talking about the beat tells you nothing of the rhythm. To describe the rhythm of any piece of music, you need to know the time signature - the number of beats per bar, and the value of each beat.
try this:
A standard reference point is music written in 4/4, in other words you can feel there are four clear beats to each unit or chunk of music, if tap your foot.
Count ONE, two, three, four, ONE, two three four - think of 12 bar blues or just about any basic pop/rock/blues and it will probably be in 4/4 time
OK, now if I play two notes per beat, there will be eight notes in a bar, so I will be playing eighths, if I play one note per beat I will be playing quarter notes, and so on.
It all makes a lot more sense if you read or are learning to read music, just discussing these things it can be tough to get a handle on.
quote:
If somebody plays 16th notes at 120bpm, is that the same as 8th notes at 240bpm?
Its the same in terms of raw speed if you measured it ie the number of notes being played per second.
BUT from musical perspective it is not the same thing - it would 'sound' different - the tempo would be twice as fast in the second example, giving the notes a different rhythmic feel.
Just by listening to the music you could deteremine which would therefore be the 'correct' description of what is being played.
Flamenco is not a good reference point IMO if you are trying to understand basic theory as it is too rhythmically complex and two people might feel the same rhythm differently (hence the bulerias threads). With lots of music though, time signatures and stuff are easily nailed. A waltz is 3/4, period.
Does that help?
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 18 2006 11:57:15
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I have never meet anyone that has great picado and poor rasqueado. 
)
. Maybe I should take a week off or something.
