RE: Picado is Impossible!

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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Grisha)

quote:

I am just curious... Have any of you measured your 2 finger speed tapping on the table?

Yeah Grisha!,
Of course it is many times faster than I can do on the guitar.
That's why I think that doing anything "off" the guitar is really a waste of time..
Things like practising ragueado on a table top or practising on one of those silly little "silent" guitars.
It's all about the complete feedback loop... the action, the feeling and the sound.
Nothing else can duplicate that accurately IMO.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2006 20:11:46

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

Really Ron? If you do it with the same control than you would have to do it on guitar?

My tapping on the table speed is more or less my picado speed on chromatic scales! But of course overall its still slow.

Regarding Rasguados its the same motion I think. Training it "in air" will help imho, coz there is no resistance, and especially when beginning with rasguados you can get easily injured due to the anatomic anused motion. Your "stroke" muscles are normally very weak compared to the "grab" muscles, and preparing it in air is usefull I think.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2006 20:16:37

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

I remember, as a child I used to tap on the table, or hit one finger against the other in the air as fast as I could. I think, ultimately it lowers your reaction time. Of course, it is not a precise indication of your possible speed on the guitar, because it takes more than one movement to produce a sound on the instrument. But it can lower your reaction time. And you can approximate the real thing by moving your fingers slightly downward after tapping on the table. Try to do it fast and you'll feel weak. This exercise can train your muscles and increase your reaction.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2006 20:22:02

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Grisha)

quote:

I remember, as a child I used to tap on the table, or hit one finger against the other in the air as fast as I could. I think, ultimately it lowers your reaction time.

Hmm...remember everybody in this Forum will be copying you now!

Everybody is looking for that "shortcut" LOL!

Grisha, I play on table tops and the side of my thigh when I'm bored...tapping out Flamenco rhythms...I think every Flamenco player does.. but I really think it is very different to actual technique on the guitar.
I would doubt if that had much to do with your amazingly fast picado as opposed to a lot of very focussed study, analysis and practise on your own!

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2006 20:31:28

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

There is no single "trick" for getting a good picado. But look at the much modified post above.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2006 20:35:16

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Grisha)

Well Grisha...I can't argue against that, simply because you can do it and I can't!

But I still have my doubts..
I think it's hard to analyse oneself objectively...
I think your ultra fast picado and general brilliance with the guitar comes down to very focussed and efficient practising along with that unquantifiable variable known as "personality"

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2006 20:46:55

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

I think it would be funny if everyone was going around tapping on the tables, but it was actually Grisha's little joke...and before you knew it, you could always tell the guitarists in any group because they're always nervously tapping the table ;)

Well, I'm going to try it!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2006 21:04:18

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

No joke intended... It was just an idea. By the way, my tapping is 300, 16ths, which beats my playing speed.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2006 21:11:17

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

I seem to be topping out at 220.... :( I need to practice my table tapping more!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2006 21:53:07

itoprover

Posts: 343
Joined: Jan. 3 2006

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

I have the interesting problem: my 2-finger picado is much slower than scales and multi-string runs - I cannot go faster than 120 bpm on one string (for multi-string runs my max is 150 bpm). Any recommendations?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2006 22:49:53

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to itoprover)

It is very normal. I have the same thing.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 0:39:01

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

the most annoying thing about practice and exercises is that you never ever really know what worked and what didnt you can never trace it down to 1 thing.

like u may do a exercise that you think it was compleatly useless but infact it might have still helped you a litlle without you realizing.

then you might have an exercise u think helps but infact all it does it warms you up efficiantly and u can do fast picados more easy straight afterwoods but makes no great difference in the long run.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 1:35:27

itoprover

Posts: 343
Joined: Jan. 3 2006

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Florian)

Spasibo Grisha,

I thought so, but it was a little surprising because when I was practicing classical 3-finger tirando I had almost the same speed on one string. It was 10 years back though.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 1:39:47

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

I think your hand and mind needs some "reset" that happens when you change strings.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:01:05

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

What is Spasibo?

Grisha,
(sorry for all these questions, but you keep answering them :))

when you practice picado, or even any technique, do you practice hard or light? And what do you suggest in general?

Thanks!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:08:16

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

What is Spasibo

i think that means thank you in russian.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:11:44

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

Florian,
who's going to hit 2000 first, you or me!?

Man, I must spend too much time here!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:33:10

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

Miguel, I recommend to practice picado hard, but you repertoire soft.

Ochen' rad pomoch' liudiam, kotorym eto interesno.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:37:30

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

Miguel i hope you are

is not a competition

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:39:52

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

I dont care about those sort of things

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:41:03

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

l'll be posting one-word messages all night and I'll beat you both. Who said it's not personal?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:41:31

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

dont care i tell you

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:42:31

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

haha thats funny Grisha .....1955

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:43:35

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 18 2006 2:55:29

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:44:15

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Grisha)

I found what i am good at, I am the fastest poster replier guy

the secret is to write each post as if you are translating yourself

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:48:04

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

Florian! Ever heard of plagiarism? I believe they take 50 posts off your record for that...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:50:25

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Grisha)

Cmon Grisha you know that dosent apply in flamenco, the hole art is based on plagiarism.

Change a note and the key and the falseta is yours :-)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:55:06

itoprover

Posts: 343
Joined: Jan. 3 2006

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Grisha)

Wow guys,

I thought we were talking about "beats per minute" not "posts per minute". LOL.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:56:22

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Picado is Impossible! (in reply to Ron.M)

Yes! That's why I played Panaderos on the 3rd fret!

Come on! You are just jealous of our record!

And on the topic... Do you practice one-finger scales? I used to play Segovia's scales using only i or m.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2006 2:56:46