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RE: How many languages do you speak??
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[Poll]
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How many languages do you speak??
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Total Votes : 34
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(last vote on : Oct. 2 2016 9:31:43)
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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 RE: How many languages do you speak?? (in reply to El Frijolito)
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quote:
On Japanese "pitch accent" see:
高低アクセント
Apparently it exists in Kagoshima as well. See: "Handbook of Japanese Phonetics and Phonology," ed. Haruo Kubozono, section 4.4., "Dialectal Differences."
The book is apparently overreaching. I did an in depth inquiry with good Kagoshimians around me and they all said there is no such thing as pitch accent to determine a words definition.
They said it is possible that a particular person might have that as an affectation, but that there is no accent or pitch that changes the meaning of a word. They all said Japanese is Japanese and that there might be regional accents, but they don't change word meanings.
Example in Osaka hashi might have a tiny stress and a shortening on the end of the word that seems like a pitch change, but really it is too subtle to make much about. They also said there is no way in hell that that is a definition modifier.
Words that are different and special regional words for nouns are common, especially things like animals and plants. And well known nick names of things, or a species of fish might have four names each regional, Arakabu in Kagoshima is Gashira in Osaka ben and Kasago in Tokyo etc. But pitch accent gets a resounding thumbs down from the educated locals/
Just curious about the 9mm because one of my customers hates Hillary Clintons guts, is a fluent Japanese speaker, and plays flamenco. You seemed to fit the profile until you deny you own a 9mm.
I like Hillary Clinton always have, and hate guns mostly, speak gramatically screwed up Japanese, which amuses them to no end. But the customer 9mm-san and I get along pretty well. In fact he is the only person I really trust who carries a weapon. He is a former police weapons range instructor so know he won't accidentally shoot himself or me, and he carries his everyday gun in a square canvas bag that looks like a kid lunch box with a strap. This is reassuring because he does not think he is Seripco, or Kojack, or Dirty Harry like most deluded fools to carry in public with a body holster ready play out some scene from a movie.
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http://people.ucsc.edu/~ito/papers/2015_ito_mester_unaccentedness_in_japanese.pdf
Excerpt from a PDF on this topic:
For Japanese, accentual minimal pair sets like háshi 'chopstick', hashí 'bridge', and unaccented
hashi 'edge' illustrate this point, cf. also sets like ínochi 'life', kokóro 'heart', atamá 'head', and
unaccented karada 'body'.4
Not all pitch accent languages allow unaccented words. Besides Japanese, they are
permitted, for example, in Irakw, Somali (both Cushitic), and Northern Bizkaian Basque
According to native speakers this is pure unadulterated bovine droppings. Hashi is Hashi and context determines definition, when in doubt ask which the speaker means.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 8 2016 22:25:35
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: How many languages do you speak?? (in reply to El Kiko)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: El Kiko
yes i beleive that french was the first language spoken in the court of Henry 8th ...
My impression, that by the time of Henry VIII English was spoken by the upper classes, is reinforced by this Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Norman_language
Of course Norman French had a strong influence upon English. The altar tomb of one of my ancestors contains an English motto, claimed by some to have been given to the family by Edward the Confessor. There are two serious problems with this claim. One is that said ancestor although claiming Danish and Saxon ancestry, and no doubt fluent in English, would have spoken Anglo-French at home and at Court. The other is that the motto contains the word "servaunt," clearly Anglo-French, presumably unknown to King Edward, or very little used by him. Edward would undoubtedly have used the Old English equivalent--or Latin for the whole thing.
Winston Churchill gave fairly long radio speeches in his idiosyncratic version of French to encourage occupied France during WW II. Someone said, "He even believes that he speaks French." But I doubt that he learned it at home. 
RNJ
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 10 2016 0:31:01
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: How many languages do you speak?? (in reply to Piwin)
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At age 16 (1954) I worked in the Base Exchange at Bolling Air Force Base in Washington, DC during the summer. My usual post was in the sporting goods department, but on Saturdays I sold beer. It seemed to be legal for someone as young as I to sell beer on the military base.
I would open up at 8:30 in the morning in a fair sized room stacked to the ceiling with cases of beer. We would usually be sold out by around 2:30 PM. Apparently we had the best prices in the city, and a good selection.
One day the wife of the First Secretary of the French Embassy appeared, nicely dressed and accompanied by her uniformed chauffeur. She said she was buying beer for an Embassy picnic. You stood in line, ordered and paid me at the cash register. The beer was hauled down from the stacks by burly airmen. The First Secretary's wife produced a scrap of paper with a list. She asked for several cases of one of the most popular brands.
"I am sorry, ma'am, but we are sold out of that brand."
"Well then, xx cases of brand yy, please."
"Sorry, we are out of that as well."
She had already attracted attention by her clothes and her chauffeur, but now she was holding up the line.
After a few more requests, going down her list of preferred brands, and further denials, she finally exclaimed, in somewhat accented English, "Well then f*ck it! What brands do you have?"
I managed to keep a straight face, but it brought the house down among those in line behind her.
RNJ
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Mar. 10 2016 2:12:39
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: How many languages do you speak?? (in reply to Paul Magnussen)
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Thanks, Paul. Citizens of the U.K. will have heard the Queen on a more regular basis than I have. Hearing her only every few years I would have heard a greater shift in accent than someone who heard her every few months.
For those who didn't read the BBC article, their opinion is that the Queen did not take elocution lessons. They believe her shift in accent is due to coming in contact with a wider circle than she would have in her youth. According to the BBC, linguists say that whenever we converse with someone, we make slight shifts in our speech to more closely approximate their accent.
As an Air Force brat I certainly had the experience of meeting childhood friends after their family had been stationed for a few years in a different area, or a different English speaking country, and hearing them with an entirely new accent.
I have three grand-nieces who were born in Scotland and spent much of their early life there. In adulthood their accents have diverged. The one who lives in Washington, DC and works for BBC America is indistinguishable from a U.S. native when she appears on television. She sounded purely American before she started in television, having attended university in the USA. The one who still lives in Scotland sounds distinctly Scottish. Their mother, born and raised in Texas, even sounds a wee bit Scottish at times, though it has been years since she lived there.
I lived in many places growing up. Many people say I "have no accent," meaning I speak standard American. Most Texans either consciously or unconsciously recognize my accent as one of several in Texas. As evidence of this diversity, do you remember the striking contrast between Lyndon Johnson's heavy small town Hill Country accent, and the deep East Texas aristocratic accent of his wife Lady Bird, with her leisurely diphthongs where Lyndon put shorter harsh vowels?
It always puzzled me that Lyndon, so adept at being all things to all people, retained the strong linguistic marks of his poverty stricken and culturally isolated childhood.
We used to tease my grandfather, saying he spoke three languages, though his Spanish was rudimentary enough not to count. He was the last of a long succession in our family of graduates of the College of William and Mary, the alma mater of Jefferson, Monroe, et al. He also spoke standard American, and South Texas English, shifting seamlessly according to the company present. We loved to hear him tell stories in his Tidewater Virginia accent.
When I took my teenage son and daughter to Virginia thirty years ago to meet some of their cousins, my daughter remarked that it was the only place other than England where she had heard three different accents from white people born and raised within five miles of one another. The cousins all spoke with one accent, the lady at the Suffolk County courthouse spoke with another, and the man at the gas station spoke with a third.
But among some younger family members in Virginia these days, their speech differs as much from their grandfathers' as David Cameron's does from the Queen's.
RNJ
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Date Mar. 16 2016 6:45:11
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