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Is this a flaw design?
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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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 RE: Is this a flaw design? (in reply to Neotriz)
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Neotriz,
First of all, good to hear you got the guitar with you home. I hope it wasnt to much of hassle.
No, its not common to put metal things in the bridge, and pesonally I dont understand why they are there. After all, its a place where string vibration is transmitted, but if the owner likes the sound and projection of the guitar, then all is good soundwise.
Leñador, its a piece of cake to drill the holes oversize and stuff in a metal tube.
The snapping: I would find an old metalwound string, stick it through the hole and use it as a kind of file. It doesnt file much, but it could be enough to round the edges and stop the snapping. Anyways, its just a matter of an old string and a bit of time, so it should be worth a try. 
And finally, I would cut off the string ends so that they dont scratch the finish on the guitar.
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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
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Date Jan. 9 2016 9:00:13
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estebanana
Posts: 9413
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Is this a flaw design? (in reply to Neotriz)
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I think the metal tubes are an interesting concept, I've seen this before,but never done it. That said nylon tubes strike me as an even better idea. But on the other hand, a 12 hole bridge gives a bit less wear to the sting hole on the saddle side because the string is not looped over itself to hold it into place.
Then again a six hole bridge without tubes is a pretty excellent design, after making 12 hole bridges almost exclusively for several years I've switched to using the 6 hole and the 12 hole about 50/50
So if I were going get tubed I think I would try small nylon or graphite tubes, because the tubes are ok, but a million bridges have been built without tubes. Hmm, that makes one think that possibly the whole tube idea is a solution to a problem that does not really exist, or is fixable when it happens. The tubes also look to me as one of those "innovations" that are luthier fussy showoff details, as if to say "my work is more cool that yours because I have lots of swell gew gaws all over my guitars."
To tube or not to tube....
Well we should not talk too seriously about bridge design, we could be in grave danger of actually learning something new....
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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Jan. 10 2016 14:47:42
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mmmenk
Posts: 54
Joined: Dec. 26 2015
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RE: Is this a flaw design? (in reply to Neotriz)
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The holes in the wooden bridge can become a problem. When players want to get a lower action, the first option is to lower the saddle and get the strings closer to soundboard and the fretboard. Many times the bridge is as low as it will go without some serious surgery. Playing action is a real concern to musicians.
They need to be relaxed and comfortable with the instrument. But wooden objects will change over time and tend to bend from the string tension.
So when you have a guitar with an action so high that you can slide a cigarette under the strings at the 12th fret, how much fun can you have with that situation?
If you can not lower the strings at the saddle, and the break angle toward the tie block is close to zero, what can you do? Turn the instrument into a slide guitar and play the blues, or Hawaiian music.
This is a daily concern in the repair shop.
The best option, but very expensive is to reset the angle of the neck.
Next best is to slip the endblock and pull the neck into position and reglue the back, also very expensive and not the best way to deal with a valuable guitar.
If there is any wood left on the bridge, the thing to do is to cut down the bridge, even remove the tie block decoration and lower the wood, bush and redrill the holes to get closer to the soundboard and provide down angle for the string escapement, cut the saddle slot lower, reshape that part of the bridge and reglue the tie block decoration and refinish the bridge and fit a new saddle. Sometimes that works. But be aware that in the design of the instrument, there is a sweet spot as to how high the strings are above the soundboard. So resetting the neck is hard to consider, but may be the best.
When builders and repair persons are confronted with this dilemma on a daily basis, we try to be creative and come up with positive solutions.
One is to bush the string holes to help them survive and maintain the original design and structure. If not with metal, then ossify the wood with chemicals, like CA, a penetrating adhesive that sets hard as a rock.
In terms of progress, we are all in the same boat, trying to survive and get along. It all adds up to a forward momentum. Live for today, in the moment,
and make our plans with hope for a better next day.
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Date Jan. 11 2016 21:41:32
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Ricardo
Posts: 15160
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Is this a flaw design? (in reply to mmmenk)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mmmenk
The holes in the wooden bridge can become a problem. When players want to get a lower action, the first option is to lower the saddle and get the strings closer to soundboard and the fretboard. Many times the bridge is as low as it will go without some serious surgery. Playing action is a real concern to musicians.
They need to be relaxed and comfortable with the instrument. But wooden objects will change over time and tend to bend from the string tension.
So when you have a guitar with an action so high that you can slide a cigarette under the strings at the 12th fret, how much fun can you have with that situation?
If you can not lower the strings at the saddle, and the break angle toward the tie block is close to zero, what can you do? Turn the instrument into a slide guitar and play the blues, or Hawaiian music.
This is a daily concern in the repair shop.
The best option, but very expensive is to reset the angle of the neck.
Next best is to slip the endblock and pull the neck into position and reglue the back, also very expensive and not the best way to deal with a valuable guitar.
If there is any wood left on the bridge, the thing to do is to cut down the bridge, even remove the tie block decoration and lower the wood, bush and redrill the holes to get closer to the soundboard and provide down angle for the string escapement, cut the saddle slot lower, reshape that part of the bridge and reglue the tie block decoration and refinish the bridge and fit a new saddle. Sometimes that works. But be aware that in the design of the instrument, there is a sweet spot as to how high the strings are above the soundboard. So resetting the neck is hard to consider, but may be the best.
When builders and repair persons are confronted with this dilemma on a daily basis, we try to be creative and come up with positive solutions.
One is to bush the string holes to help them survive and maintain the original design and structure. If not with metal, then ossify the wood with chemicals, like CA, a penetrating adhesive that sets hard as a rock.
In terms of progress, we are all in the same boat, trying to survive and get along. It all adds up to a forward momentum. Live for today, in the moment,
and make our plans with hope for a better next day.
Odd you didn't suggest simplest solution IMO, to lower action while maintain or raise saddle. Replace fingerboard. Perhaps even tall frets would do the trick, but a hair thicker fingerboard would make a big difference. Basically it's reverse of the fix required to do the opposite...maintain action but reduce bone saddle, luthiers just plane down the ebony.
As a player, I hate the 12 hole tie block thing...looks bad and not fun. IMO.
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Date Jan. 12 2016 12:08:54
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