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RE: interbreeding...?   You are logged in as Guest
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Stu

Posts: 2536
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: interbreeding...? (in reply to Dudnote) 
I'm not about to tell you anything about rap/hip hop. If you don't like it that's cool. I've no desire to try to change your mind. But to dismiss it as skill less and generally a bit rubbish is unfair and a little snobbish. I'm not a hip hop aficionado. I'm the wrong guy to ask. I used to enjoy some hip hop but not really any more. I just find it annoying that it often gets scoffed at on here.
Ruphus, any one can come up with a string of carefully selected words to discredit any art style. Flamenco is just a load of wailing gypsies screaming over the top of clapping loops and cacophony of annoying stamping. See it's easy. To the uninitiated it could sound that way...we happen to know it's not a fair assessment and anyone who spent a little longer with it would hopefully learn to appreciate it.

The top hip hop artists don't claim to be singers. They are more akin to poets sharing ideas, even verging on philosophy. And I'm not talking about the aggressive maniacs who just wanna tell you how much cash they have and how much pussy they get. That's not for me. No sir.

If we're talking about the whole thing then you don't just have the rap element. You have that but you also have the production. It's takes a lot of skills to mix and produce a track. The dancing, break dancers and popping and locking is highly skilled! What about beat boxing? Definitely skilled! Live performance, rap battles (making it up on the spot) definitely skilled. And hrs and hrs of hard work makes it possible. to sweepingly say this genre is without skill does nothing but show you to be ignorant. (No offence)

And comparing them is definitely not like comparing apples with billiard balls! They have so much in common. How can they not for heaven's sake?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 20:35:21
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: interbreeding...? (in reply to Stu) 
Could be some of auto mechanics to consider me ignorant for finding the judder of an old diesel engine to be a monotonous noise. ( -And I in fact remember one admiring the sound of a bike of mine, whichs downdraft carburetor concept he claimed was built quite like a fourth of a Ferrari engine.)
If so wished, simple musical structures like say of lullabies can obviously perceived as demanding. And if rap is supposed to be so, we need to ennoble each and all kinds of what could be considered music.
Everything then would be (fill in quality attributes in here).

But ignorant as I am, things do sound different to me. Very differently even; from easy as pie to incredibly composed and difficult to generate. I´m sorry.
And as you say, anything can be chosen to be executed in predefined or then harder to execute ways, even doing up shoelaces (<-seriously), but the question remains whether the efforts couldn´t be invested into something more rewarding.

Also, it has been proven that monotonous noise (as well as not just audible, but any kind of uniformly sensible input, for that matter) brings down discerning abilities.

This circumstance is even beeing employed as method to clear consciousness of political inmates in dictatures, who´d be exposed to monotonous input to bring them down.
Basically it is like: The more diverse and structured an input, the more differenciation there will be. The more simple input, vice versa. Neurological basic fuction.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 22:07:32
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2015 1:31:18
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: interbreeding...? (in reply to Guest) 


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Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2015 2:25:40
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Stu) 
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2015 19:51:25
 
chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: interbreeding...? (in reply to Stu) 
quote:

If we're talking about the whole thing then you don't just have the rap element. You have that but you also have the production. It's takes a lot of skills to mix and produce a track.

To add -
Here's something I would consider hip-hop. The video is 'interesting' but not official.

Is it virtuosic? Not really. Do I enjoy listening to it? Definitely.

DJ Shadow 2002
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2015 4:48:45
 
withinity

 

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013
 

RE: interbreeding...? (in reply to Stu) 
I think Stu's got a good point. The mainstream hip hop industry is one thing then there's the whole underground which is a completely different ocean.

And those underground artists who are dirt poor compared to the popular well known ones are generally vastly superior as they are actually the ones continuing the true culture of hip hop but are rarely heard of or even known except to those who are 'into it' as it were.

Its kind of like if you take someone like Mantis De Plata and use it to represent Flamenco , a hip hop example would be to take Lil wayne, Kayne west etc

In Essence I think they are really similar from a cultural standpoint , like Flamenco the Cante being the origin and hip hop same with the one who is 'spitting' which could have easily been matched by some handclaps , both come from cultures of oppressed people and whatnot.

Hip hop just got way more marketing and overall monopoly to it since its from U.S.A originally.



  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 20 2015 14:35:37
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: interbreeding...? (in reply to Stu) 
I like the idea of combining these two styles. If done well it can be very enjoyable. It may also introduce more people to flamenco.

I've always enjoyed the wit, tongue dexterity and rhythm manipulation in rap music. It is very entertaining when improvised on the spot. Definitely takes skills. I don't like listening to mainstream rap or hip hop for the rarest exceptions.

Kibinago, please refrain from making comments about Romantic era music. Unless you've studied and analyzed it thoroughly. See, I don't enter discussions about flamenco on this forum because I don't think I have enough knowledge of it and can make a monkey out of myself.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 20 2015 19:13:03
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: interbreeding...? (in reply to Ruphus) 
In case you hadn't heard, Rap and hip hop is RHYTHMICALLY based....perhaps THE most fundamental aspect of all music. The idea of "rap" in the flamenco world is nothing new...compas is compas.



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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2015 12:40:50
 
withinity

 

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013
 

RE: interbreeding...? (in reply to Stu) 
Yeah , you know in Flamenco how you can do similar phrasing within compas but using different techniques or techniques variations to fill in the rhythm, hip hop artists do similar things with flow of their lyrics with what gets fit into those bars.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2015 19:22:08
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: interbreeding...? (in reply to Stu) 
I knew we weren't gubna get through this thread without a Thomas video!

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2015 20:14:47
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: interbreeding...? (in reply to Leñador) 
Looks like Canelita has been dabbling with this cross over thing too...


_____________________________

Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 22 2015 17:17:54
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