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BarkellWH

Posts: 2794
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Vive la France (in reply to Paul Magnussen

Paul,

I just looked up the New York Times Bestseller list for January 14, 1962. William Lederer's "A Nation of sheep" was listed as No. 5, and it had been on the bestseller list for 38 weeks. Again, while the U.S. Government was not pleased with the book, It does not appear to have been banned or censored at all. I actually read the book back then, and I don't recall any attempts to thwart its publication.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 7 2015 0:11:11
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2553
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Vive la France (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

quote:

Are you suggesting that there was a U.S. Government attempt to ban them?


Yes: if I remember correctly, I read that the CIA bought up the entire first run of their next book and destroyed it, and made it clear to the publishers that any attempt at a reprint would be received with extreme disfavour.

But I don’t immediately recall the reference, this was some time ago; it may have been one of the Project Censored books. I’ll have a quick look and see what I can find.

In the meantime:

http://www.salon.com/2011/08/31/censored_by_cia/


Very interesting Paul. I was unaware of any such effort by the CIA to suppress Lederer and Burdick. I would very much like to know more about it. Apparently they were unsuccessful in their attempt to suppress the book. You can get a copy here:

http://www.amazon.com/Nation-Sheep-William-J-Lederer/dp/0393052885

The book would not seem to be very rare at present, $2.59 for a used hardback, $30.00 for a new paperback.

Perhaps it is a case similar in some respects to that of Wilhelm Reich. Reich published numerous works, many of them at odds with mainstream science and psychiatry. But in some English editions of works previously published in German, he broke the law.

Reich believed he had discovered at least two new forms of energy. He built and sold specially designed boxes for people to sit in, called "orgone accumulators." So far, so good. Where he fell afoul of the law was to claim publicly and in pamphlets he distribured that the "orgone accumulator" would cure cancer, the common cold and impotence, among other ills. He was charged with practicing medicine without a license. I'm no lawyer, but I assume he also violated laws against making specific medical claims not vetted by the Food and Drug Administration.

In the English versions of works previously published in German, Reich inserted specific claims of cures by the "orgone accumulators" he was selling. This violated a court injunction against such claims, and Reich's organization was forced to burn a large number of unsold books.

The American Civil Liberties Union objected to the book burnings, but gained little traction. In 1960 the publisher Farrar, Straus & Giroux began re-publishing Reich's English books.

So did the U.S. Government have the power to suppress Reich's "scholarly" publications?

As to the Salon article, part of the security briefing for new employees or contractors of both the CIA and the NSA is the warning that by accepting employment with either agency, the employee agrees that any publication of information gained through such employment is subject to review and approval by the Agency. It's been quite a while, but my recollection was that the new employee was required to sign a specific contract agreeing to this.

Furthermore, in every one of the numerous security agreements I signed, it was specifically stated that although classified information might become public knowledge, the employee was still bound by his or her oath of secrecy.

So it was no surprise to the author in the Salon article that his book would be reviewed, and subject to redaction by the CIA. Nor is it surprising that he would be outraged at the CIA's actions, which he saw as aimed at preventing the release of important and damaging information.

What is particularly troubling, however is the otherwise well documented transgression of the CIA into torture. The Senate report on its investigation, despite attempts by the Republicans to block the publication of its executive summary, revealed much of the wrong doing in this area, though people responsible for these activities have escaped legal consequences, as far as I know.

Two of my friends, one of them the highest ranking non-political appointee in a Department of Defense sub-Cabinet department, were charged with revealing classified information in articles in Aviation Week and Space Technology. The charge was a political ploy by opponents of my friends' objectives, to promote a more vigorous response to Soviet strategic moves. The political attempt failed, since it could not be proved that my friends ever had access to the information in the first place, through official channels.

My friends' attempt to promote a more vigorous response to the Soviets failed as well.

Of the projects I was involved with throughout a long career in the defense business, there is only one of which I have seen no public discussion, despite some of them being conducted at the highest possible levels of secrecy. I am unaware of any malfeasance in that one project (nor of any particularly important consequences), so it doesn't especially concern me that it seems not to be public knowledge.

As has been pointed out, the U.S. Government is not some monolithic force. At times efforts to cover up by one branch of the Government have been foiled by a different branch.

Do parts of the U.S. Government try to cover up inconvenient facts? Yes, no doubt. Is it very successful at it? Not in my experience.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 7 2015 0:51:49
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3734
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Vive la France (in reply to BarkellWH

From what I recall the CIA spent $ 2 mio to buy off Reich´s books and destroy them.

The orgone matter served as pretext to remove this, thus hunted by the whole spectrum of political scale and cleriks, brilliant mind and his genius analysis of levering at human drives to manipulate for bondage and economics of exploitation. And it was suceeded with classic dictatorial methods, through diffamation, making collusive denouncers of some of his staff and locking him up under sickening conditions of which he finally died.

He was a unique master of coherent thinking, also evident in protocols of discussions he had with those of his staff who had been turned into judas. Not one word of offence, skipping or any evading, but throughout rational reasoning that cought the betrayers pants down by their own claims and sketch.

To my great dissappointment these protocolls disappeared from the W.R. foundations website, and the administering lady answered to my inquiries over the years basically with: "What protocols?" (Seeing common procedures one is inclinded to think that they have been made obedient there / the protocols confiscated. But I am not excluding the possibility of her now suffering from dementia. Still the question remaining why the documents were taken down.)
I am pulling my hair to not have downloaded them many years ago, for them having been most excellent examples for stringent argumentation. Never seen anything like it.

With the painting of Reich as crazy scientist his discoveries faded from academic sight, and the subjects continued with routines of that time. Reich´s congruency in the meantime confirms with the discoveries in behaviroural and psychological science and anthropology made in the past decades.
In fact it makes for a somewhat bizarre scene to read of them as new and at times ground braking findings, when aware that they have been either explicitely or inherently been provided ~40-80 years before already.

Having helped academic students with their exam work, one of them was on societal matter. The student´s professor was amazed about the congruency and systematics, asking him how he managed to reach to there. And her jaw dropped when he explained how principles extracted by Reich had been applied to the facts.

From my experience no one really reads that stuff to start with. Let alone with an open minded approach. Everyone only fearing to be outcasted as nuts, picking it up with tweezers of arrogance and ignorance if at all.
Only consequential in an upside-down world.

What orgone is concerend, I have not read about it. However, had been assuming some oscillation for the difference between a living and a dead organism already before my personal notion of such theory existing. (Today guessing it to be connected to just the very electric impulses of living being that are for instance being detected by hunting sharks.)
With the diffamation it must not wonder that the dismissing of such a thesis has been just as vehement as there in the same time has been no reproduction and actual examination of it. Quite the kind of at its individual time contemporary collegial diligence and absent examining ambition dedicated to `subversives´ like Pasteur and others.

Had Reich been surfacing today, the collegial reaction would certainly be different from that during the McCarthy era and the intellectual atmosphere of that time. These days the CIA would need to prepare on some aircrafts turbine or such to get rid of him.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 7 2015 12:36:16
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 9 2015 5:28:13
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3734
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Vive la France (in reply to BarkellWH

Reassuring that you seem in the know about what could be possibly suppressed or not.

Regarding said protocols things are as I stated above. They disappeared from their website and the director strangely enough claims to not even be knowing about them, eventhough being in position since the time when Reich´s doughter handed the foundation to her long before internet times.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 9 2015 7:25:56
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 9 2015 11:53:42
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11032
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Vive la France (in reply to Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kibinago

If WR was so great, why is it that orgones do not exist?


Orgone exists and Ruphus uses that machine probably.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 9 2015 15:01:07
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1538
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Vive la France (in reply to Ruphus

I know virtually nothing about Reich but what I’ve read here and what his Wikipedia entry tells me; but the fact that he was a Freudian doesn’t seem to speak well for his grasp of logic or science.

However, I will certainly give you no argument about the censorship.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 9 2015 18:11:57
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 1:11:30
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3734
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Vive la France (in reply to Paul Magnussen

Hear, hear, Kibinago, an actually informed guy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kibinago

If WR was so great, why is it that orgones do not exist?


As you seem to master congruency, how first about distinguishing between the matter of orgone and societal / behavioural/ psychological / anthropolical matters related to above?

Good for you that labels tell it all.
How have the bio eggs been this morning?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

I know virtually nothing about Reich but what I’ve read here and what his Wikipedia entry tells me; but the fact that he was a Freudian doesn’t seem to speak well for his grasp of logic or science.

However, I will certainly give you no argument about the censorship.


Seems Wikipedia has not mentioned Reichs splitting from Freud´s disciples.
Asides from the fact that any psychologist stems from Freud, who again aside from some erring was the founder from valuable principle that base the subject till today.

If interested to learn about Reich´s analytical skills, see if you can find a book named "The sexual revolution".
Make sure to reset yourself first though. It is essential.
-Similar to like when reading classical Greek philosophy.
One can´t follow it without resetting first.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 2:32:25
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Ruphus

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 3:23:18
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3734
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Vive la France (in reply to BarkellWH

With the same certainty that the chair you´re sitting on being of anti material, just because I am stating so.

You are talking out of your rear for matters of stereotype and bias.

Fact is that there have never been made efforts to disproves Reich´s orgon theory, and that you obviously having no clue about his other themes, nonetheless like to make bold claims.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 10:32:46
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 11:52:26
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3734
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Vive la France (in reply to BarkellWH

In many years fulltime martials arts, one thing that I learned is that those easily going about their readiness to fight, usually are those who have no clue about the matter.

We had many such self-entitled specialists showing up unduely and getting their butts kicked faster than they were able to even watch.

But your megalomania is not relevant here. Related is the competence that you display and that is of such a mind-set that it makes me wonder what actually drove you to this forum.

Are you possibly from a mental camp that is making its name as Taliban, ISIS etc.?

Better look around in elementary school for persons to exchange with.
Here it is rather about sophisticated, art appreciating community.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 13:47:47
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 13:54:26
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11032
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Vive la France (in reply to Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kibinago

How dare you insult my integrity!


LOL

Mr. Ruphus at one moment is totally against superstitious hocus pocus religions ghostly phenomenon etc, (basically all non scientific stuff) yet eager to entertain this "orgones" lifeforce utter BS as it might fuel his world elite censorship conspiracy theory of, above all, the USA. Ready to draw fist for animals in distress (ala the Wonder Pets), so I would watchout about the physical challenges...he might wooop you like he did the last guy that landed him in prison!!!

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 19:09:20
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2794
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Vive la France (in reply to Guest

quote:

Now see here sir, end this nonsensical barrage of lies or be struck down by my superior intellect and strength of forearm.


Fisticuffs is too pedestrian. Challenge him to a duel. You can then walk into a tavern located on the edge of the Field of Honor and issue forth the classic phrase:

"Barkeep, swords for two and brandy for one!"

Do you need a second to handle your weapon? A foil? A rapier? A sabre?

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 19:19:58
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 19:57:48
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3734
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Vive la France (in reply to BarkellWH

Ricardo,

Do you ever actually read what´s been said?
Check out what part of Reich´s work I am relating to.

If on the other hand health matters in USA had been reason to do what was done to Reich, a good part of the US food & drug related industry would had been shut down and managers sentenced to life-long prison or death.
-

And what brought that big-mouthed Mediterranean nutcase to this forum?

Malta must be radically different from Albania, where I lived for 3,5 years once.
A guy like this would hardly reach adolescent age there. -Provided he dared swearing around like that in real life.

And even just on the foro, I have seen trolls thrown out for less.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 21:17:49

Piwin

Posts: 2164
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Vive la France (in reply to Ruphus

Here's a small modern-day parable:

A small group of musicians were out having a smoke in front of their usual haunt near the Christmas market in the early evening when a crazed lunatic showed up with a gun trying to get in. They got in his way. Now, one is in a coma, one is brain dead and scheduled to be "unplugged" and one lost one of his hands. But they did manage to run the intruder off and prevent him from getting inside.

What's the take-away from this parable, which may or may not show up in due time in your news feeds as an official story in a more or less similar form as the confusion lifts? I don't know. Maybe there is none. Or maybe just: it's a crazy world folks so get a move on it and make art lest tomorrow you can't.

Or maybe it will be something more prosaic, like don't trust unofficial sources for your news.

_____________________________

"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2018 5:16:45
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3734
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Vive la France (in reply to BarkellWH

Thank you for the remarkable bit, Piwin.
I passed it on to a thinkers´newspaper plattform.

No clue why it is under the carpert so far. Only thing I recognize being the common betrayal on true heroes.
Common crying shame.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2018 10:27:45

Piwin

Posts: 2164
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Vive la France (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

No clue why it is under the carpert so far.


Oh, probably just journalists taking the time to do their job right ;-) There's a lot of confusion going around and you know how it goes, things get distorted, even by first-hand witnesses. Already a few hours ago one local newspaper (link, but in French) had some coverage of it. And it's telling a fairly different story. If I map it onto the informal story I was presented (from someone I know who says he was in that bar), then we do have a kid in a coma (artificially induced), we do have another kid who was injured (possibly the "lost a hand" part) but instead of a brain dead man we have someone who ran inside and hid under the counter. It also does not imply that they did anything in particular to stop the shooter. It just says that they were outside and got shot at. So who's to say... Time will tell, or maybe it won't. Either way, life's too short and unpredictable to not make art.

https://www.estrepublicain.fr/actualite/2018/12/13/attentat-de-strasbourg-un-jeune-vosgien-dans-un-etat-grave

_____________________________

"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2018 11:45:09
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3734
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Vive la France (in reply to BarkellWH

Thank you, Piwin.

I passed on what you just added.

-Though personally still sceptical about the delay, as long as journalists are not hindered from their job.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2018 12:39:37
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2794
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Vive la France (in reply to Piwin

Whenever the details of the Christmas market attack are clarified, there appears little doubt that it was one more assault by a disgruntled Muslim against a perceived Western enemy (although he was French).

It does get nuttier, though. According to a Washington Post article, some "yellow vest" protesters are circulating the conspiracy theory that the French government orchestrated the Christmas market attack to discredit their cause.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2018 15:22:12
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1538
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Vive la France (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

No clue why it is under the carpert so far.


As to the British media: I’ve found nothing on BBC News, or in the Guardian or the Spectator; but there is an article in the Times.

(Events in the rest of Europe seem to be beneath the notice of the Mirror, so the story’s absence there doesn’t signify anything particular.)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2018 18:58:53
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1761
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Vive la France (in reply to Paul Magnussen

I suppose there's a certain level of terrorism fatigue. These things are no longer a surprise. And anyway, isn't media coverage spreading fear exactly what they want? Far more amusing watching the conservatives argue about whether their party is more diposable than their country or vise versa. And watching Macron imitating Clinton in his appology to the nation. Any good cante albums coming out soon?

_____________________________

Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2018 20:58:48

Piwin

Posts: 2164
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Vive la France (in reply to Dudnote

quote:

Any good cante albums coming out soon?


Not cante, but apparently some prankster over at BFMTV found the perfect opportunity to bring back Bob Marley:



I shot the Chérif... lol. bad bad taste that is...

_____________________________

"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2018 23:02:01
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3734
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Vive la France (in reply to BarkellWH

On the online domaine and forum of these days DER SPIEGEL yesterday evening someone asked: "Hat er wieder 'Allahu Akbar!' gerufen, der 'Terrorist', ja? Wird er wieder 'auf der Flucht erschossen' werden, ja?"

("Has he once again be calling 'Allahu Akbar'? Will he once again be shot 'on the run'?")

About two and an half hour later the same domaine delivered the answer.
"Zugriff am Stadtrand: Mutmaßlicher Attentäter von Straßburg getötet"

("Access at the outskirts: Suspected assassin of Strassburg killed")

According to the report the madman was able to walk the streets unrecognized despite of released search photos, yet approached policemen by walking backwards.

I am not certain of any scenario.
But if interested in timely attacks during urgently low popularity of state chiefs, use your memory for plenty of coincidences.

- Since yesterdays headlines on investigations, for Trump one could be coming in handy too.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 14 2018 7:19:17
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