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RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemporary, Creative Works of Music? Literature? Art?
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemp... (in reply to runner)
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(The following article, taken from Associated Press wires, appeared in newspapers throughout the country yesterday.)
(The City, September 8, 2015, AP)
A strange occurrence played out in the City's Theatre District yesterday afternoon. Two actors were on stage rehearsing for their roles in a play from Sinclair Lewis's famous work "Babbitt" when suddenly a man, wild of eye and disheveled in appearance, walked in and stared at them on the stage while clutching a book close to his chest. Not knowing what to expect, the actors, one of whom had just uttered his line ending in "Babbitt," the other holding his play book open where his next lines began, stood still, watching the intruder who remained mute throughout. Finally, the man left the theatre and went out into the street where he began shouting, "The End is Nigh! The End is Nigh! End Times are Coming! End Times are Coming!"
Police were called to the scene, and when they tried to calm the poor wretch down they noticed the book he was clutching to his chest. When the police tried to take the book in order to see what it was, the man seized it from them and began to shout, in a near-unintelligible babble, something about it being a holy book that predicted that End Times were Coming! In the meantime, they were able to make out the name of the author, one Leonard Meyer. After the man calmed down somewhat, he was taken to a shelter where he was given a new set of clothes. Subsequent investigation revealed that the distraught man had been participating in an internet forum entitled "Foroflamenco," and that all he could say about his forum interlocutors was that they were "unbelievers." He repeated the term over and over, "unbelievers, unbelievers." Police and shelter personnel finally determined that the man was a threat to neither himself nor others, and he was released on his own recognizance.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Sep. 8 2015 21:48:08
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemp... (in reply to mark74)
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quote:
In an interesting twist of fate, music is now returning to an era of live performance and patronage as selling recorded music has become totally unsustainable for 99% of musicians.
I think you are spot-on here. But there is an interesting phenomenon within that niche that still listens to recorded music. For some time now, there has been a subculture (including so-called "hipsters") that favors vinyl recordings, and in this morning's (online) edition of the "Washington Post," there is an article about how today's "hipster" culture is returning to cassette recordings. I suspect "hipsters" will have little impact on the music industry, though, as they historically have rejected anything that does not conform to their idea of "nonconformity," and they seem more interested in making fashion statements (in their quest for their own version of conformity) than in actually creating a real culture.
Ironically, I have maintained and continue to play my collection of vinyl recordings (some of which are 50 years old) on a stereo turntable I have owned for 40 years, and I think those who know me would agree that I am the furthest thing from being a "hipster." (A "Luddite" would be more like it. I still refuse to carry a cell phone around. Why would I want to be instantly available 24/7?)
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Sep. 10 2015 2:30:44
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemp... (in reply to estebanana)
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I have had cassette players from brands like Blaupunkt, Philips and the original Luxman which in conjunction with fine TDK cassettes and source from good turntables allowed for some definite hi-fi.
Withe braking down of the tangential mechanics of my turn table some four of five years ago, I hadn´t been able listening to the venyls anymore.
From there I was sent Pink Floyds records with the last parcel from Germany. However, only as mp3, not wav or flac.
Like a maniac, I fiddled around half of the day with computers to somehow get the files into my player (while the only suitable harddisk had been lent out ), then turned on the stereo, sat down on a sofa and closed my eyes for the lush mind-blowing sensation originally used from the venyls.
The result was so totally dissappointing ..., after all those years of craving.
Not nearly as lush and brilliant as should be. All thin, lifeless and distorted in the HF.
However, I suspect it to not have been as much a matter of digital tech (bitrate of the mp3 over 500) than of bad source.
For the conversions I once made of a couple of albums (all through top notch gear, including convertors) had turned out really great.
Now, I so regeret to not have converted at least the most relevant venyls back then when all the gear was set up in my studio. Instead in fact I deleted the files afterwards, for back then lack of storage. grrr ... 
Ruphus
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Date Sep. 10 2015 19:04:43
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemp... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
Anyway, something that I noticed--and my wife did too--was that we preferred the sound of vinyl to digital music.
I agree, Miguel. Part of the reason I stick with vinyl is because I am a Luddite. But a big part is I, too, prefer the sound of vinyl to that of digital. I have CDs that I play in the car while driving, but I listen to my vinyl collection on our turntable at home. I think there is a group of us who prefer vinyl because of the sound quality, and it has nothing to do with being "hipsters." Why "hipsters" are supposed to like vinyl is beyond me. Perhaps they like the sound, perhaps it is a form of "rejection" of CDs as being "mainstream." Who knows?
My preference in listening to music is: first vinyl, second digital, and third tape cassettes. I never thought the sound quality of cassettes was very good, even when they were popular.
Regarding "hipsters," my preference would be the hipsters of the 1940s. While they were as self-consciously "outside the mainstream" as today's strive to be, at least they were into some very good jazz--bebop and the rest of the '40s music scene. Today's version of hipster seems to consider it cool to wear dark-framed glasses. I wonder what they read?
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Sep. 10 2015 23:36:56
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Mark2
Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemp... (in reply to mark74)
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This is something that is heard a lot these days but have live performance fees increased to compensate for the devastating fact that recordings no longer have much potential to earn money for the 99%? I think the answer is no for those same 99%. Club gigs pay the same or less. Same with corporates and privates. Lower level recording acts are doing no better at gigs, with no more support from labels than before. So, all the folks downloading or streaming telling musicians they can make it up with live gigs-absurd.
The musician can only be in one place at a time. The manager can have many acts working all over the same day. The recording could be sold(in the past) all over at the same time, giving the recording artist a chance to earn large amounts of money, without being present, both through the sale and also the songwriting and performance royalties. Without income from recordings, the musicians are reduced to laborers, leaving the bulk of the money to the business folks, be they promoters, managers, agents, etc.
I was talking to a music business guy at a gig recently and asked what he was doing. He said he had a rock band working a tour in Europe and he had a piece of their merchandising. I jokingly asked if he was going on the road. He laughed and said the only place he was going was to the mailbox for the check. Maybe things will work out for musicians at some point but for now the business guys are still in charge. It used to be the labels, now it's Apple taking the bite out of the musicians ass. New boss same as the old.
quote:
ORIGINAL: mark74
The technology to make music has changed, the technology to listen to music has changed and the avenues in how music is monetized has changed. I think those have been the determinative factors.
In an interesting twist of fate, music is now returning to an era of live performance and patronage as selling recorded music has become totally unsustainable for 99% of musicians.
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Date Sep. 11 2015 16:07:08
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemp... (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
There are two main reasons IMO, and it is not really an illusion about taste or preference for old school fidelity. The first reason is sampling rate...a CD or any digital sound will only be squared off sound wave type thing. The higher the sampling the smaller the little squared edges and the more "round" it might seem. So the potential is there to fool the ear into hearing a smooth curved soundwave (that you get with vinyl), but there are limits depending the source. Old CD's always admit this on a small lable on the disc.
The second reason is far less acceptable, and the main problem IMO. The overuse of COMPRESSION....this is used to boost volume mainly and destroys the natural dynamics of the music...the reason old vinyl sounds more "live". With the un needed extra compression comes a noticeable increase in "hiss" in the high frequency such that necessary noise reduction becomes the final death blow to the original intended audio that was captured. The worst is the old analog recordings "remastered" or "restored" by some modern engineer that puts it in the computer program and compresses the crap out of it and dumps noise reduction liberally until it sounds like some weird robotic music. This overall horrifying process in the recording chain is usually called "mastering"... there couldn't be a more inappropriate name for the event of utterly destroying a musician's work by an un caring hearing impaired "proffessional".
I do not dispute that some vinyl audio setups sound better than some digital setups. My first extended experience with digital was with a portable Sony player and Sony headphones. It sounded somewhat worse than my very good LP setup at the time, but I started using digital as soon as CDs came out in 1983 because I traveled a lot for work, and it sounded better than most cassettes on my high end Walkman.
But this is not due to inherent limitations in digital technology. More about this later.
In 1989 I bought a pair of Stax Signature Lambda electrostatic headphones. They are still the cleanest transducer I have ever heard. They don't kick you in the chest on the bass like the top of the line Linn speakers, but the headphones are just a little cleaner in the mids and highs.
I started reading Stereophile magazine at about the same time. I thought they were nuts. They went on at some length about how different CD players sounded different. But I had accumulated a fair number of CDs, and I went around to the shops in Santa Barbara with my headphones and listened to CD players.
Guess what? They really did sound different. I bought a midrange Sony player, about $350 in 1988. The $1,000 Sony sounded a little better, but I wasn't ready to put that much money into digital, given my experience up until then.
Having learned a bit more about the technical details of digital audio, on my travels I started carrying a half dozen CDs that sounded good on the Sony, along with the Stax headphones. In the early 1990s top of the line Meridian and Sony players sounded better than mine, but still not enough for me to fork over the cash. Then at a little hi-fi shop in Honolulu I plugged the Staxes into a Linn CD player. I listened for about an hour, then got out my checkbook.
In Houston I listened to the same CD player through Linn amps and top of the line Linn speakers. I got out my checkbook again. When the speakers arrived at Kwajalein the pallet with the two speakers, packed in their tri-wall boxes, weighed 440 pounds (200 Kg). I had to get a little help the get them up to my third floor apartment.
Technical details:
Square edge soundwaves: Nope. The square edged output of the digital-to-analog converter is fed to a reconstruction filter in the analog domain. This smoothes out the jaggies. You might think this is just an attempt to make the best of a bad situation but,
"In the field of digital signal processing, the sampling theorem is a fundamental bridge between continuous-time signals (often called "analog signals") and discrete-time signals (often called "digital signals"). It establishes a sufficient condition for a sample rate that permits a discrete sequence of samples to capture ALL the information from a continuous-time signal of finite bandwidth."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist–Shannon_sampling_theorem
In theory there is no limit on how close you can come to PERFECTLY reconstructing an analog signal from digital samples, provided the analog signal is band limited in frequency. Human hearing is band limited in frequency. Nobody can hear above 22 KHz.
Technology and ingenuity dictate how close you can get. Modern technology and design let you get closer with digital technology than with vinyl LPs. With a good digital system and good recordings, you can hear it.
Technology limitations and some unfortunate design decisions led to digital sound in 1983 that was generally inferior to the best LP systems. I put up with it for portability.
The best that could be done with the CD in 1983 was to store 78 minutes of 44 KHz sample rate stereo (total 88 KHz), 16-bit audio. Turns out this is plenty, but the design of the reproduction systems suffered from two serious design flaws.
The first was the design of the anti-aliasing filter that came before the analog-to-digital converter. These had flat frequency response up to around 18-19 KHz, and then dropped off very steeply. You have to cut off below half the sampling frequency. The problem was that these "brick wall" filters inevitably introduced severe phase shifts in the highest frequencies. You could hear the ill effects.
The second problem took a little longer to figure out. The samples have to be clocked into the digital-to-analog converter at precisely the sample rate, 44.1 KHz. The first few generations of CD players tried to recover the clock from the analog signals themselves via a phase locked loop. The result was microscopic variations in the the clock rate. Worse yet, the clock jitter was correlated with the loudest signals. When people looked into this they found that the resulting distortion was highly audible.
One reason the Linn player sounds so good is that it doesn't try to recover the clock from the CD, whose spin rate varies slightly. The player itself generates the clock, and regulates the disc's spin rate from it. With late 1980's technology this was expensive and bulky--the player comes in two boxes. But it sounded great.
The anti-aliasing filter problem was solved by oversampling. But I won't bore you with the details. You can look it up.
I listened to a lot of really good LP systems from the 1960s through the 1990s. I never heard one that sounded as good as the best digital systems.
I also heard quite a few $20-50K systems, both analog and digital, that sounded really, really terrible. My theory was that those systems were designed, built and sold by, and bought by people who didn't know what live music actually sounded like.
I went to one of the three expensive hi-fi shops in Santa Barbara and listened to a pair of 6-foot tall electrostatic speakers that cost about $15,000 a pair. I put on a classical guitar CD that sounded pretty good on my Stax headphones. On the speakers it sounded dreadfully screechy. It was the middle of the afternoon on a weekday. I was the only customer. The store owner was an engineer who had worked for Delco in Santa Barbara. I asked him if he wanted to hear what a live classical guitar sounded like. He said, "Sure."
I went home, got my Contreras "doble tapa", came back to the store, sat between the speakers and played. I asked the owner if it sounded different. Then I played the CD through the same CD player and the Staxes.
Being an engineer he understood when I pointed out the flaw in the speaker design. The big panel was moved as a plane, generating a sharply focussed beam of high frequency energy. Good electrostatic speaker design moves the membrane like part of a pulsating sphere, leading to a more natural sound dispersion pattern.
I agree with Ricardo that a lot of recorded music sounds bad because it is compressed. A lot of commercially recorded classical guitar music sounds like some completely different instrument.
But the available dynamic range from a good CD player nowadays is much, much wider than is remotely possible with vinyl technology, so compression on CDs is an esthetic decision, not a technical limitation. All the same, a good vinyl system is likely to sound better than a bad digital one.
And the evaluation of recorded sound is, in the end, subjective.
RNJ
Now that I've got that off my chest, it's time to go swim a few laps....
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Date Sep. 11 2015 18:24:10
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemp... (in reply to estebanana)
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Good stuff, Richard. I too have heard that CDs are potentially as good as vinyl, but have not personally witnessed the fruition of that development.
I recently discovered Pandora and Spotify, which are online services that function sort of like radio, but also help you find music from other artists you are likely to enjoy. I have listened to this on reasonably good headphones, my mid-fi home system, and via bluetooth in the car. It was only in the car that I noticed how dead it sounded, and perhaps only because I also have a CD player and occasionally a song on the streaming service will pop up that I recently listened to in the car. (by the way, I have mark's album in my car rotation right now). It is enough to make me not enjoy the streaming stuff very much.
I also listened to some mp3s today encoded at 128 and found them to be unacceptable. There is something wrong with the very high end, the drums sound fizzy or artificial. Nasty. I changed the settings on my computer so that will not happen again.
_____________________________
Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ
Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
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Date Sep. 11 2015 21:57:58
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemp... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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The system I was talking about in the previous post is the one used for "Red Book" CDs. The Red Book is the specification developed by Philips and Sony when they worked together on developing the CD and its recording and playback systems. The format is called "linear pulse coded modulation." It samples each stereo channel at 44.1 KHz and records a 16-bit binary number as the result for each sample.
The bits are recorded as little dimples in the surface of a plastic disc. The surface is coated with a very thin layer of metal (usually aluminum, sometimes gold) to make it reflective, so the dimples can be read by a laser in the CD player. The metallized surface is protected by a transparent layer of plastic.
If you hold a CD up to the light, you will see that the metallic coating between the two layers of the disc is full of tiny holes. When the laser is shone on the disc to read the recorded info, these little holes result in errors. To counteract this the results of the sampling are encoded with an error correcting code. The computer in the CD player looks at each block of data. The code enables the computer to detect read errors, and most of the time to correct them. This code adds additional info that is about 30% as big as the original data. Thus CDs not only don't throw any data away, they record additional redundant data to guard against read errors.
Sony developed the SACD, which uses a different sampling method, enabled by much faster electronics than were readily available in 1983 when the CD was introduced. SACDs on a good system sometimes sound better than CDs. But they didn't catch on very widely commercially, though a few classical recordings are still produced in SACD.
Nowadays some of the highest quality classical and jazz recordings are downloadable computer files, sold over the internet. These files have a higher sample rate than CDs, and each sample has more bits. The files are too big to play in real time over an average internet connection. You store them on a hard drive and play them back through special players, often at shocking prices. Sometimes they sound better than CDs, but not enough better for me to pony up the big bucks. You can put a lot of music on a 3 terabyte hard drive, in a lot less space than the many shelves required to hold a couple thousand CDs.
MP3, the process used to encode computer files and the data transmitted on digital radio
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3
intentionally throws away data, in order to reduce the size of the files or the data rate to be transmitted via radio. MP3 and other "codecs" make use of aural masking. Louder sounds effectively mask softer sounds that are close in frequency, that is, they make the softer sounds harder to hear. Through a lot of computing, MP3 throws away data that is masked below a certain level. But if he or she listens closely on a decent system, the average person can hear the difference between a low data rate mp3 file and a well recorded and reproduced CD. A lot of pop music is composed, played and mixed to take this into account.
In this post and the previous one, I have talked about two kinds of compression. In the previous post I meant decreasing the dynamic range of a signal by making the loud parts softer and the soft parts louder. In this post I'm talking about compressing file size by throwing away partially masked info.
A lot of stuff played on the radio is compressed both ways. It's dynamically compressed so it will sound loud when you're scanning across the dial, and so you can hear the softer parts listening in a noisy car. It's bit-rate compressed to make the signal fit into the relatively narrow bandwidth of radio or the internet. The local classical station doesn't compress either way. It sounds great at home, but not so good at speed on the highway.
One reason Youtube sounds crappy is the strong bit rate compression it imposes on audio, no matter what the quality of the uploaded file may be.
RNJ
Now it's time to start the fire so it will be ready in half an hour to grill a small steak, and to uncork the wine to let it breathe a little. I only do it once or twice a month. My policy is to befriend my vices, not stamp them out rigorously...
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Date Sep. 12 2015 0:32:29
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemp... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
Now it's time to start the fire so it will be ready in half an hour to grill a small steak, and to uncork the wine to let it breathe a little. I only do it once or twice a month. My policy is to befriend my vices, not stamp them out rigorously...
Richard, my question is why do you even consider them vices? Were I you, I would consider them well deserved rewards for a life well-lived.
It is a sunny Saturday morning in Palau, and Marta has been with me for a month. she departs Palau Tuesday morning for Guam and Honolulu, where she will spend three days. Then on to Washington, DC and home. I will remain here until October 30, when I will depart and spend several days in Honolulu before returning to Washington. In the meantime, today we will spend time on the water, anticipating opening a bottle of wine for dinner this evening. The Embassy apartment in which I am residing overlooks a beautiful lagoon with several islands, and our usual Saturday evening routine is to have a glass of wine on the lanai overlooking the lagoon as the sun goes down. Best part of the day.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Sep. 12 2015 1:26:53
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemp... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
I agree with Ricardo that a lot of recorded music sounds bad because it is compressed. A lot of commercially recorded classical guitar music sounds like some completely different instrument.
Five or so years ago a guy asked me to make him a guitar that sounded like the recordings of guitars on a CD recorded by the Assad Brothers. I took the CD listened to the Assad's who blew the doors off the church. Boy are they good. I saw them first live in 1989 play a program of Scarlatti and Bach...WOW.
I thought about it for a few weeks, what the hell am I going to to do for this guy? So I called him and said I can't make it sound like a CD guitar sound. I have no idea really what these guitars sound like from the CD sample. And I think the sound on the recording has been worked over by a recording engineer, the sound is very idealized.
I said I can make you a guitar that sounds like a guitar and it will record very well and have excellent intonation. I just said to be honest I can't guarantee it will sound like that CD of the Assad's.
I made the guitar, after some months fear and self loathing that he would still hold me to the Assad sample. It turned out to be very sweet, not huge sound, but balanced, with nuance, warmth and super intonation. It was a nice guitar to record with and play live. His band mates sought me out, the flute player in particular, to tell me how good it sounded and how nice it was to play in ensemble with a guitar that was in tune. A professional flute player no less said this. I considered it to be very successful, and a looker too.
The guy was never really impressed and sold it several months later, I heard. I guess it never sounded like the CD. I have tried to track that one down, but I can't find it now. Today I find it absurd to try to think of guitar sound as it comes off a CD as a model for making a guitar. I suppose I did them too, but I had not been put in the situation.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Sep. 12 2015 1:34:32
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemp... (in reply to estebanana)
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There were very extensive discussions about digital audio in a great recording forum.
There pariticpated engineers who build the stuff. A bunch of technical wherabouts like say Lynquist ( I think it was) and beyond were above me, but things were very interesting and educating.
Yet, the subjective part always remained in the discusssions. So far even that some refused to hear the difference from 44.1 / 48 to 96 kHz (through gear that allows for a difference).
On the other hand noone tried to compare prosumer convertors of that time to high end stuff, which does not only sport better digital stage, but achieves much of its quality through its analog circuit.
I don´t use the analog outs of CD-players (or now mainly of the squeezebox). The signal is taken out digitally to a standalone convertor from where the analog outs feed the amp.
And I try to avoid mp3, though there can be impressive files. Ripped my CDs to flac which is a losless compression format.
What sound compression is concerned, you may consider that its been happening in venyl times as well. Usually through tape compression for the master, but also analog compressors and limiters.
And when done tasteful, why not.
In fact I must admit that even classical music at moderate volume levels, when actually sans compression often comes across a bit boring to me.
Yet, undoubtedly squeezing has been way overdone. And last when I was still into audio, the recording community was fond of Bob Katz´ explicite suggestions of levelling systematics. Many pros then announced to be following it with their mixes and masters.
Don´t know though in how far the industry has adapted to it or not.
After all its the average consumer whom the product is meant for. And when he puts in a BK-production right after a cranked CD, he may feel the tatsteful levelling as "weak" sounding. (Unaware of his volume knob at hand).
If you think cassettes couldn´t deliver than you might have not used good gear yet. Project studios with respectable productions sometimes use cassette recorder for tape saturation without sonic losses.
And I would be susprised if listeners hadn´t appreciated the cassete sound I used to have on fine rigs.
Richard,
What do you think of DSD?
I have a portable DSD recorder, and tracks through fine front stage, turn out so good, it appears to me as if the advantage would come through even after converting to 24 / 16 bit 44.1 wav.
I havn´t compared to end products done with my Lavry PCMs, but those from the DSD tracker do certainly turn out well, especially for transparency of instrumentals.
-
Man, I am craving for audio work!
- But photography can definitly be thrilling too. ... If you could only just run around shooting here.
Ruphus
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Date Sep. 12 2015 23:29:15
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemp... (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
My point was that today there is the idea out there that a guitar maker can instantly make any sound the buyer requests, and coupled with that, a particular guy who gave a specific CD as a sample of how the guitar should sound.
On a related note, my flamenco guitar guru and good friend Paco de Malaga has occasionally been approached by someone who will bring a CD of Paco de Lucia or some other guitarist, who advises that although he is new to flamenco, he wants to learn to play "like that," (i.e., like PDL or whoever is featured in the CD). Paco, realizing the person in question is not a serious student, politely advises him that, unfortunately, he cannot accommodate his request.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Sep. 13 2015 3:30:27
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemp... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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While sometimes appearing in public with the Monde, he clinches a deal with the makers of Goldstones to sign the Goldstone label. He does so by leaving hundreds of labels he signed in the Goldstone inventory, to be slapped on each Goldstone as it comes off the production line, thus leaving buyers of Goldstones secure in their impression that Goldstones with his signature on the label meet his stringent specifications. (And, by the way, increasing the cost of a Goldstone by ten percent.) His photograph appears on his next CD with a Goldstone. It is the one and only time in his life that he has held a Goldstone.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Sep. 13 2015 21:53:06
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Do the Classics Suppress Contemp... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Miguel,
Mark74 has an interesting take on the few musicians who dominate the recording realm. I quote him below, in part, from his comment above.
"In an interesting twist of fate, music is now returning to an era of live performance and patronage as selling recorded music has become totally unsustainable for 99% of musicians."
He seems to agree with you that there are a few who dominate recordings, but the very fact that most cannot earn a living by recording is opening more opportunities for live performance. It is an interesting observation that suggests that new composers and musicians may have an audience after all for live performances that goes beyond your "rapidly-declining and aging audiences [who] are not discriminating enough to demand that pieces be interpreted in a certain way, although they apparently want Mozart at every concert."
I found it interesting when I first read it and wanted to refer back to it and juxtapose it against your comment above (which is interesting as well). I think there will always be room for new composers and new music. Think of how much music over the last 60 years has appeared in spite of the classics as we know them. The "Dead Hand of the Past" has not suppressed new music from being composed, played, and produced. In fact, musically, the Past is alive and well, coexisting with the lively Present.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Sep. 14 2015 22:05:31
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