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What should I look for in a laminate trimmer?   You are logged in as Guest
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Ahmed Flamenco

 

Posts: 163
Joined: Feb. 22 2014
From: Egypt

What should I look for in a laminate... 
Guys I've seen different laminate trimmers in the market but I'm afraid of two things.
how can I control how much I go into the top and the back and also they have one speed so what should be the speed so as not to damage the wood?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 1 2015 16:56:59
 
estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco) 
Some companies sell laminate trimmers already outfitted for guitar making with the fixtures included. Stew-Mac also sells the accessories for making binding channels and they list which routers are compatible with their hardware.

The base is important, not too big. The sole is the plastic base, you can remove and make new soles, or bases out of plexiglass. A compass base is not hard to make. Probably on your tube someone gives instructions.

But look at the options at Stew-Mac for ideas. The accessories they make are good.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 1 2015 23:02:45
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco) 
I use a Makita laminate trimmer. It comes with a guide and a tilting base. The base also has mounting points for your very on custom made bases.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 2 2015 10:34:44
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco) 
Could it be, Stephen, that Makita meanwhile presents a pretty good choice of decent quality for the $ anyway?

Better performing and lasting than some of the cheap trash sold for same or higher price for instance under the formerly solid brand Bosch these days, me thinks.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 2 2015 11:48:36
 
estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco) 
I've used the same Bosch 1600 lam trimmer since 2002 and it show no signs of giving up. The Makita is good too. The main difference between laminate trimmers is some have round bases as some have square bases. And the mechanism that raises and lowers the bit is slightly different. I have thought of getting a second one to set up as a compass and have the Bosch as binding channel cutter because get tired of moving the bases back and forth. If I get a second a Makita would probably be a first choice because the base looks better for compass work. And easier to get here, but another Bosch would be fine too, nothing wrong with Bosch tools.

One thing about selecting the base is that it should not be big if you plan to use it for compass work. The center pin needs to index close to the cutter head, to within 1.5" i order to cut out the soundhole which is just over 3" - I make most soundholes 86 mm which is pretty classic in Spanish work, it is 3-3/8". Everyone here makes them about 86 or 87 too so any one can help you set that up.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 2 2015 12:49:49
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to estebanana) 
I have two Bosch, two Makita and an old Skill all of which work well. It's best to have one for each operation since it eliminates setup time. There was a recent thread on laminate trimmers on another luthier's forum and the consensus was that currently the best one is made by DeWalt.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 2 2015 13:54:49
 
estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco) 
quote:

Guys I've seen different laminate trimmers in the market but I'm afraid of two things.
how can I control how much I go into the top and the back and also they have one speed so what should be the speed so as not to damage the wood?


The answer is to get a laminate trimmer and practice with scrap wood until you are confident you understand the tool and the process.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 3 2015 0:58:48
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco) 
Oh John, you make me look like an amateur with my one trimmer! I don't even have a second base! I just skrew my compass base to it every time I need it.

I did like the dewalt routers I used when I was an apprentice. I will check out the laminate trimmer on your recommendation.

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 3 2015 8:09:21
 
estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Stephen Eden) 
quote:

Oh John, you make me look like an amateur with my one trimmer! I don't even have a second base! I just skrew my compass base to it every time I need it.

I did like the dewalt routers I used when I was an apprentice. I will check out the laminate trimmer on your recommendation.


Seriously yes Eden, he's a show off with his five lami trimmers. You got his number.

Maybe he really uses them for mashing grapes to make his wines.....haha

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 3 2015 11:02:57
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Stephen Eden) 
I also have three big routers . The only routers I have owned that failed were both made by Riobi.

Some people collect coins...I collect tools, it's a form of insanity that fits comfortably with the delusion that one can profitably build guitars.

The best advice I can give on router use is 1. used downspiral bits 2. if possible always move the router in a counter clock wise motion when cutting 3. if you value your fingers keep them away from the spinning bit.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 3 2015 14:29:07
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco) 
Porter Cable tilt base works great too. I use the cutter and bearings from StewMac, which come in increments of 10 thousandths of an inch for the depth of cut. Sometimes I wish it was 5 but it always works out in the end :)

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2015 1:09:50
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco) 
Ahh and again John with the show boating ;)! I've only got two big routers. It would be great to have a router permanantly set up for each use it gets which would only mean about 2 - 4 more routers. Good advice what do you find useful about the down cut bits. I bought one years ago to do some binding channels and only used it once it wasn't cheap either. I went over to using a 16mm twin flute straight cutter with does the job far easier and cheaper too.

I don't think it's crazy to think to you can make profit from building guitars. It is crazy to think it's easy though. I don't know if it's just me but I have noticed an awful lot of new guitar builders around. Maybe it really is easy to make money from it!

Do you mean 100ths of an inch? I had a quick look and found the bearings went up in roughly .25mm increments? I would get them if they went up in 250ths of an inch. I don't really know inches though so I haven't got a clue about the real terminology.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2015 8:51:14
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Stephen Eden) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: SEden

Good advice what do you find useful about the down cut bits.

Since they slice downward there's less chance of chipping. You're right about the expense. I ran across a great sale on them a few years ago and bought a bunch so I haven't needed to buy one for some time.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2015 14:06:32
 
estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco) 
Down cut spirals are really accurate. I think one of the things is they push the sawdust out of the cutter path.

I need to make a new outside mold and was looking at top bearing straight cutters, my but they can be pricey these days. Bottom bearing are cheaper, but you have to fasten the pattern to the bottom of the work and its harder, but I have been thinking about it.

If you have a pattern fixed to table top and elevated an inch on a plywood sleeper you can screw down precut roughed out 'blanks' of plywood or MDF on top of it. Then rout around them with a bottom bearing straight cutter indexing off the patten under the MDF you want to make the mold with. With four pieces per each half of the mold routed to the pattern you just stack them and glue them together.

Any ideas like that one? Router mavens?

Just saying because I don't have money to burn on fancy router bits like Sir John, 'He of the Kingdom of the Three Routers'.

Did you hear about the guitar maker who won the lottery?

Apparently it was a good thing. It enabled him to continue to make guitars until the money ran out.

BA boom~

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2015 22:22:58
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to estebanana) 
Problem with top bearing straight cutters is the dimension. They don't come smaller than 1/2" since after letting in the bearing the shaft would be too fragile. Nobody wants an exploding router bit that's running at 18,000 rpm or so.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2015 22:44:33
 
estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco) 
I just got two that are 1/4" shaft. Freud copies.....from China. The design where the bearing has 1/4" diameter hole that slips over the shaft and is held by a ring with a set screw. The shaft is not compromised.

I worry more about flying blade fragments....well I'll wear gloves and body armor.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2015 23:17:21
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to estebanana) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I just got two that are 1/4" shaft. Freud copies.....from China. The design where the bearing has 1/4" diameter hole that slips over the shaft and is held by a ring with a set screw. The shaft is not compromised.

I worry more about flying blade fragments....well I'll wear gloves and body armor.

I guess I wasn't clear. The cutter head cannot be smaller than 1/2" since it doesn't leave room for the bearing to sit on the shaft.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2015 1:52:46
 
estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to jshelton5040) 
quote:

I guess I wasn't clear. The cutter head cannot be smaller than 1/2" since it doesn't leave room for the bearing to sit on the shaft.


Oh yeah, true, but for pattern making the 1/2" cutter dia. will be fine. I've had to order some tools from China simply because shipping cost from the US kills me.

A Chinese cello end pin reamer was about $35.00 plus under $10.00 in shipping- the reamer is not bad at all, and when compared to $150.00 for a German reamer plus $40.00 in shipping...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2015 4:56:23
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Ahmed Flamenco) 
Using a bottom bearing cutter in a router set on a table is the way I was taught to do it. I only use 3 layers though. I put the key in the middle of two rough cut blanks and simply flip it over when I've done one side.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2015 6:49:44
 
estebanana

Posts: 9353
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What should I look for in a lami... (in reply to Stephen Eden) 
quote:

Using a bottom bearing cutter in a router set on a table is the way I was taught to do it. I only use 3 layers though. I put the key in the middle of two rough cut blanks and simply flip it over when I've done one side.


Yeah but I'd have to get like John and collect about 30 routers and dedicate several to router tables. Wah!



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2015 7:37:14
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 13 2015 8:42:11
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