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ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

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Steve Vai has one here...

Ahah, that's the video I mentioned on the other thread.


Major fail by little Stevie @2:20... just listen to what he says and what he does.


The placebo pills where also strong on that one. Maybe he mixed them with something else..

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So now, instead of a guitar that has a chord here or there a little off...EVERY CHORD he just played sounded out of tune baddly

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Most people considered the chords on the marine band sounded sweeter.

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The concept of moving the fret locations to improve intonation is not new anyhow. Greg Byers notes that John Gilbert was doing it before the 1980's.
http://www.byersguitars.com/Research/intonation.pdf

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None of this is new, none of this is new. None of this is new.

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None of this is new, none of this is new. None of this is new.


Absolutely, just poorly understood by many and that is exploited by the crooked fret charlatans

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Got to correct myself.
After talking back to a friend about Byers´ article, it became clear to me that Byers still is not considering to find a solution through adapting frets placement. He seems to have not considered all options, but concentrated exclusively on saddle and nut compensation.

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The thing about optimized fret placement would be that it wouldn´t matter where you put your capo.

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Capo's are always going to be a problem. neither nut and saddle compensation nor modified fret placement are going to completely fix it.
One of the components of playing the guitar which creates extra string tension and sharpening is your finger pushing down the string between frets to create a positive stop.
When you uses a capo, if you apply it carefully to a well intonated guitar, the open strings on the capo may be closer to in tune, but then you play it and the strings you fret are getting a double push, once from the capo and once from your finger.
So it won't be perfect, live with it, that's a tradeoff for the versatility a capo provides.

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ORIGINAL: estebanana

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Capo's are always going to be a problem. neither nut and saddle compensation nor modified fret placement are going to completely fix it.
One of the components of playing the guitar which creates extra string tension and sharpening is your finger pushing down the string between frets to create a positive stop.
When you uses a capo, if you apply it carefully to a well intonated guitar, the open strings on the capo may be closer to in tune, but then you play it and the strings you fret are getting a double push, once from the capo and once from your finger.
So it won't be perfect, live with it, that's a tradeoff for the versatility a capo provides.

Yes this is true, in flamenco the cejilla is so important especially in accompaniment, and the real measure of a flamenco player is how well they accompany.

Learning to put the cejilla on the guitar while distorting the strings as little as possible is a minor skill to be learned. The amount of tension in the band that straps the cejilla to the neck needs to be carefully tried until it is just right.

I like the cejilla not only for the way it changes the timber, sound quality and pulsation of the guitar in different registers, ( frets position) but also for the way you adjust the intonation by pushing and pulling the strings after you put the cejilla on.

The interesting thing this how you tune to play Por Medio and make it sound good is different than how you tune to play Por Arriba. By tuning close in on the A major chord when you play por medio it creates a fluent harmony through the series of A phrygian intervals and chords.

It pretty interesting that flamenco is one of the few musics that today in which we use our ear tuning to focus in on how we hear and adjust harmony in a particular key as we play. And we change that harmonic relationship in a subtle way when we change to a different key.

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I have learned over years of experience to simply equal temp tune AFTER capo goes on, using harmonics. No fingers on the fingerboard to tune open strings. The rest is technque.

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Well, I for one take some issues here and there...I know this is quite the "normal" view of things. When jeff highland says "string tension and sharpening" refering to fretting, I get the feeling that most people feel that applying finger pressure or capo pressure, may only result in SHARPENING frequencies/notes, other wise intented to have been "equal tempered" as per initial tunign of the instrument....but actually it can go in the other direction, that being a flattening of the pitch as well. It depends on how one executes the "fretting" activity.

To me, the capo is to be taken as "the nut", unlike when when we use a first finger barre and do work with our other fingers as chords or notes of a melody. Most of us have the ear for the modern day "autotuned" pop singer...the equivilant could work on a guitar and one could see how carelessly placed fingers can require corrections to an other wise "in tune" guitar. Perhaps more obvious to a fretless instrument (I saw this done with fretless bass playing) or vocal, but regardless are we talking here about instrument construction, tuning method, or TECHNIQUE???

I know the EVIL temptation to sweet tune por medio vs por arriba, etc...what is being done here is NOT well or just tempermant for a key or form...it is a well temperment for a SPECIFIC GUITAR CHORD VOICING...that is something quite different in my mind. You sweeten a certain chord shape, and all chords in that key that use the SAME VOICING will be equally sweet. But to see that bad logic behind it for flamenco...just look at solea por medio. If you drop the B string to sweeten the third, except for A and Bb, all the rest of the tonos are off and the singer sounds off too.

I have learned over years of experience to simply equal temp tune AFTER capo goes on, using harmonics. No fingers on the fingerboard to tune open strings. The rest is technque.

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That and making sure that the "biggest errors" are on the flatter side. It's easy to compensate by sharpening a note or two with bending within a chord but having to flatten a note to make the chord sound good... that's not a good plan.