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RE: Musical Knowledge
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Sr. Martins
Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
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 RE: Musical Knowledge (in reply to BarkellWH)
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quote:
The "guitar player" stereotype within musicians is a figment of your own imagination. Apparently you are the victim of a self-reinforcing feedback loop that does not allow for any objective external factors to influence your own preconceived opinion. Never let facts get in the way of your own preconceived opinion.
That's precisely the reason why I said you wouldn't understand me and that it was pointless to discuss it with you.
You say that there's no "guitar player" stereotype and don't agree with my premises... then why do you keep going at it? Just let it go.
I didn't say the links were about guitar players bragging about nothing but I see a pattern here... guitar players bragging is all you're looking for, you completely disregard everything else (which is what really matters). In fact the first link bashes guitarists quite a bit, maybe you didn't read well.
If you which to proceed, at least make an effort to read again what the topic is and try to stay within it.
The main topics still are:
- What do you think are the reasons that led to the "guitar player" stereotype within musicians
- What other arts do you know where you can find a significant amount of people stating that "learning about art is bad for your creativity" and refuse to study it/know more about it?
edit:
...and here's the last meaningful post that I wrote, kind of summing up what has been said and adding another hypothesis...
quote:
Another thing besides what has already been mentioned about the guitar (popularity, the characteristics of the genres to which it is strongly linked, "pattern friendly", etc), I think we could add the rockstar effect to it.
Rock guitarists became pop culture icons (anyone heard of Slash?) and are "exploited" as such through the media, which means that they reach a wide audience.. and what they say does too! Adding up to this we have games like Guitar Hero where, as you can guess, it's all about rock bands...and you play as a rock guitarist, who 95% of the time is someone who says "I just place my fingers where they want to go". (Oh, and the game itself is like animated tabs where you press some colored buttons or something...)
Well, my point here is... maybe culture itself (and the industry) play a big role into the "guitar player mentality" as a stereotype
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Date Apr. 13 2015 1:12:48
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Ricardo
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Musical Knowledge (in reply to Sr. Martins)
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The reasons are obvious...guitar magazines. When I was a kid it was "cool" to know some theory about a tune, even a rock tune. And along come a couple of "cool nerds" along lines of Holdsworth,Zappa, Vai....and shredders that new their **** post malmsteen...gilbert, macalpine, moore, becker...etc. Even guys like Vanhalen admitted to classical piano lessons and such, and looked up to guys like holdsworth....even as a kid I got to read about guys like mclauhlin and dimeola who while quite cerebral and nerdy with the "theory", could play with devistating power. It was NEVER about record sales.
But as time pressed on, I think it got to Becker transcribing his own piece "air" cuz it was just too advanced for the magazine genre to deal with...that was the end of it and along came the 180 degree approach ushered in by "cool to be dumb" bands like Nirvana...and a guitar column by dimebag "look dudes symmetrical patterns are cool"...and it was all over, overnight practically. It was no longer "cool" to have knowledge of music, eclectic tastes, nor technical speed and prowess. And it has gone pretty much downhill ever since. Guitar magazines had potential to educate the masses, and took the fanzine papperiazzi approach to featuring artists.
Outside of the guitar world itself, again I point to the fact the guitar is used for many different genres, and the genres have their own disciplines for mastery. It is not that there need to be excuses for not understanding the circle of 5ths (which is all that theory knowledge is after all), but there are other priorities for a specific genre...such as rhythm, groove, song form, swing, for flamenco we have emphasis on accompaniment of cante/baile etc. It evolves to a place where, if the discipline calls for it you WILL have readers...such as classical guitar, but put a chart in front of a classical guy and he will be lost...like wise a great chart reading session improvisation guy might have difficulty with Bach suite sight reading session...it happens in piano land too I have seen it. One guy can sight read beethoven with no mistake, but cant deal with a jazz chart and comp chords and improvise...but the jazz pianist can read a chart of a tune he never heard and do a decent solo to boot, but can really struggle with Bach. So which player is "failing" with his knowledge of theory and music? Or is there no "failure" but just a different discipline going on?
Ricardo
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Apr. 13 2015 20:38:03
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Musical Knowledge (in reply to Sr. Martins)
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quote:
This means there is a huge chance that people already have a guitar at home since they were born and very likely will learn at least how to strum a few chords on it... next thing you know you're in a band.
Now think of harps/cellos/tubas and etc... you don't find any of this stuff at the supermarket for 50€ and if you decide to buy one, chances are you're doing it because you've already signed up for lessons.
The guitar is the most popular instrument by far, and because of its popularity and high volume of sales it can be made and sold at a relatively low cost. One can learn the rudiments of playing the guitar fairly easily without lessons, although lessons help.
Harps and cellos, on the other hand (I cannot think of anyone who would want to play a tuba unless he were in a high school marching band) are not sold in high volume and are more high-end instruments, and must be in order to earn a builder's profit. I suspect they would be very difficult to learn without lessons, and your buddy down the street probably does not own one and cannot show you how to play. So if you want to learn to play a harp or a cello you are almost obligated to take lessons.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 13 2015 22:02:16
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