From a Gypsy Jazz forum

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Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

From a Gypsy Jazz forum

"Most guys pick up the guitar as a way to meet girls, but this kind of music is a great way to meet men..."

Awesome, no? The context of the discussion was the relentless pursuit of virtuosity and new sounds as opposed to melody and accessibility. I guess flamenco would be just as bad, except--dancers.

http://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/13336/excerpts-from-an-interview-with-branford-marsalis-the-problem-with-jazz

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2015 17:24:01

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

"Hi, I play guitar and... I would like you to show me your capirote.."

"Sure thing mate, come with me.. let me just put these in water"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2015 17:36:05

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

It is! That's how I met Rui and I hope to have my EU citizenship soon!

lol

Good dancers seem to be pretty darn discerning too. I think a good guitarist that's new to flamenco is likely to be somewhat impressed by simple Juan Martin book stuff. An experienced dancer would look at you like, "ummm where's my 1,000 mph abanico remates??" Etc Virtuosity is basically a norm and expected of you in flamenco so anything less and most aficionados are gunna be pretty unimpressed. Not just speed either, if you can't follow a singer no matter what they want to do they'll just think you suck. Following improvising singers well with good taste and melody is a form of virtuosity in my book and that doesn't require any speed.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2015 20:00:48

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Leñador)

Hmm, all the flamenco guitar players I know, or rumberos even, ALL get laid on a regular basis. (talking about the males)

THe problem is, the GOOD players don't waste too much time finding a dancer to uttlerly dominant their entire existence.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2015 20:13:04

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Leñador)

I do not think a good classical guitarist, who was playing things of that level when he was in kindergarten, is going to be impressed by Juan Martin. However, the sheer racket that even an average flamenco player can create is...quite awesome. Especially if you are in the same room. But virtuosity? A decent triplet ras takes what, a few months to get down?

I somewhat sympathize with the argument that there is too much focus on virtuosity. Have you checked out the gypsy jazz stuff? Man, it's a circus act! Reminds me of the Guitar Trio. Uh oh, did I say that out loud?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2015 21:44:09

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

THe problem is, the GOOD players don't waste too much time finding a dancer to uttlerly dominant their entire existence.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2015 23:25:44

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

THe problem is, the GOOD players don't waste too much time finding a dancer to uttlerly dominant their entire existence.

Key word there is good lol

quote:

But virtuosity? A decent triplet ras takes what, a few months to get down?

To be even an average flamenco that can function you need to be able to mimic fast footwork sequences and melodically/rhythmically think on your feet. That takes a lot of time and what SOME could call virtuosity...I think I would.. I suppose others could argue virtuosity only applies to "fast finger mechanics"....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2015 23:36:09

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Leñador)

Yeah, like it or not, the fast finger mechanics is what is usually meant by virtuosity--because it is visible to all. However, I am all for the expanded, truer definition. I think people usually call that by "musicianship".

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 12 2015 0:15:09

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

I do it for the pussy! !
Meow!

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaasaaah

Best

pink

Oh sorry if I've offended.... must be the tosser in me.
Love you all
xx

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 12 2015 0:37:42

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Hahahaha

It really is easier than other "nerd music". If your able to play for a dance class it's fish in a barrel lol....till you shack up with one and gotta keep your slimy guitar playing hands to yourself lol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 12 2015 4:34:54

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Hmm, all the flamenco guitar players I know, or rumberos even, ALL get laid on a regular basis. (talking about the males)

Wow.. wait.. what??

I've just pictured an all male "encuentro gangbang"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 12 2015 13:09:55

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Leñador)

There was a time I was a bartender trying to be a novelist. The rumba group at the restaurant was vacationing in Spain, and their substitute group had some... difficulties getting along. There was a spare guitar around, which I picked up and I helped them out. Very quickly, I perceived the--social benefits--of guitar playing versus sitting at home in front of a computer. I have not noticed these benefits accruing much to classical guitarists. Perhaps Grisha will comment on whether women approach him with bouquets at his concerts. I know when he came here, they were applauding enthusiastically, but the organizers pulled him through a side door and gave them the slip.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 12 2015 14:31:03

Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Ah guitar and women. There is the saying that a rock guitar player plays three chords for 10,000 people and a jazz player plays 10,000 chords for three people. Let's face it, jazz players are some of the very best guitar playing musicians and they, for the most part, get little in terms of financial return, and probably get similar results from females. Flamenco would be much the same but for the dancers. But since the music is more exotic, in the U.S. anyway, that brings more attention than jazz, which is familiar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 12 2015 17:48:26

Sr. Martins

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Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Mark2)

From a stereotypical point of view, if you're an introspective kind of guy who loves to nerd over music related things (the jazz guy), what would you do with crazy groupies?

You would be better off with a librarian chick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 12 2015 17:55:17

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

From a stereotypical point of view, if you're an introspective kind of guy who loves to nerd over music related things (the jazz guy), what would you do with crazy groupies?

You would be better off with a librarian chick

Perhaps the 3 chord guy will be with groupies like "wham bam...ok next...", but the more cerebral jazz guy might have more interesing and fun multipurpose activities to perform with his groupie, or groupies, before saying "next".... anyway I can only speak for myself.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 12 2015 18:51:24

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

When I was playing in metal bands and spinning there was easy access to groupie types and I'm not gunna say I never indulged but I always wanted the library type and never could get it. Flamenco definitely made that possible though, I'm the same guy but somehow nerdy chicks see me as more intellectual or cultured. My lady now has a PHD and got one B in her entire school life. I love it, feel way more fulfilled with someone who doesn't just want to party all the time with friends.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 12 2015 20:22:47

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Leñador)

Librarian chicks are where it's at! I guess published authors who go on tour get them...?

By the way, so I am guessing rappers do better than jazz guitarists?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2015 3:29:54

Ricardo

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Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

By the way, so I am guessing rappers do better than jazz guitarists?

no, they get money hungry skanks that want free drugs. NEXT...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2015 3:44:11

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

What a romantic thread to have before valentines lolol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2015 5:37:57

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to pink)

quote:

I do it for the pussy! !
Meow!

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaasaaah

Best

pink

Oh sorry if I've offended.... must be the tosser in me.
Love you all
xx

I've always wanted to us the term tosser in a post on the Foro, but being a US guy I don't have a feeling for how good or bad the word 'tosser' is. So I have abstained from tossing.

British usage always never fails to amuse me. Once when I was about 20 some guys from the UK visited my hometown and we all hung out together at a music flophouse drinking and playing music. It was a house I lived in and there was a band set up in the living room, drum kit, mic stands amps and a party EVERY might of the week with posers and real players alike. A SCENE!

So one of the Briish guys was telling a story and he was talking about some other guy he kept calling 'The Bishop Thrasher'. I don't remember one thing about the story, but everytime he called out The Bishop Thrasher character we cracked up and rolled on the floor laughing. We knew this was funny. My GOD! He's thrashing that bishop, again!!

It's still funny all these years later. I hear Ska music on the radio this insane mod Britsh guy telling the Bishop abuse story comes to mind. I play chess and someone loses a BISHOP and I can't help saying "Oh I see you thrashed out your Bishop, too bad."

I have no idea what it means. I hope it's not offensive.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2015 11:12:55

jmb

Posts: 119
Joined: Oct. 14 2014
From: Vallecas - Madrid - Spain

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

Flamenco definitely made that possible though, I'm the same guy but somehow nerdy chicks see me as more intellectual or cultured.

Really? I should ask for an exile in the States. In Madrid still seems that a 'flamenco' is a lazy pleasure seeking man that get together with dangerous people, drinking bad wine in peñas in a rotten life. What is called 'Un lolailo que le gusta el gitaneo'... And in the North of spain there are people that look you as a Martian.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2015 12:43:28

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to jmb)

When most girls hear the word "musician", they think "unemployed".

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2015 13:37:39

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to jmb)

The same "musical lifestyle" will mean different things in different parts of the world.

Context is really important too make the distinction between a loser or a legspreader.

Usually, if there's a stage and you played there on that night, you're already way ahead of most of the guys who were part of the audience.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2015 13:54:45

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

Really? I should ask for an exile in the States. In Madrid still seems that a 'flamenco' is a lazy pleasure seeking man that get together with dangerous people, drinking bad wine in peñas in a rotten life.

I know! That's kinda why I relate to it so much

Here in the states though different ball game, you're "cultured" if you like it. Sometimes flamenco shows here are full of the most uptight snooty people ever, kind of annoying.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2015 13:56:07

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Sr. Martins, that's very right. What Lenador facetiously said as "romantic", I was mulling over just now. The truth is I met my to-be-wife while playing rumbas on stage in a Spanish restaurant. There were no groupies there, just quality people who liked music and good food. We were married on Valentine's Day 11 years ago, and I am happy to be out of the game. So my speculations about rap-chicks and librarian-chicks is strictly "dirty old man" material!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2015 14:01:20

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

I have no idea what it means.

A 'tosser' is someone who 'thrashes the bishop'.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2015 14:25:26

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

A 'tosser' is someone who 'thrashes the bishop'.

Is that so? Oh no'S Pink has had said naughty THings!!!!! Naughty old Pink!

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quote:

In Madrid still seems that a 'flamenco' is a lazy pleasure seeking man that get together with dangerous people, drinking bad wine in peñas in a rotten life.

I have that no matter where I go. I don't get no respect.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2015 15:13:49

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: From a Gypsy Jazz forum (in reply to estebanana)

Can someone explain me the "tosser/bishop" thing?

The "university bands" which are called "Tuna" are a perfect example of the respect subject. If I went out somewhere dressed as a civilian with the rest of the gang to do what we usually do, people would call the cops and we would only get the "party" kind of girls (the hardcore ones).

Since we're dressed up and known as students, everyone loves it and there's free wine and food to be had. You don't even have to play, just walk around with a guitar and chicks will follow.