Experimenting with the RH position for picado

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jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

Experimenting with the RH position f...

I was slightly changing my RH position doing picado. I'm playing a bit closer to the strings now and it seems ok. It's a slight adjustment but in the guitar world it's a huge difference. I was wondering if I should continue this way. Never had any problems before but I think for string crossings i think it's better. Do you hear any difference in tone? I was curious about this. Thanks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2015 3:15:55

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

I think this sounds more solid in terms of tone, but post a video of your previous position so we can do a head to head comparison. Olé!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2015 4:07:49

Blondie#2

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jg7238
I was slightly changing my RH position doing picado. I'm playing a bit closer to the strings now and it seems ok. It's a slight adjustment but in the guitar world it's a huge difference. I was wondering if I should continue this way. Never had any problems before

Personally, I would look at that last sentence and question why change? You have an excellent picado, a really well functioning mechanism. I think you have to be very careful pushing things and making adjustments when the mechanics work so well, especially in a technique which is so fast and finely tuned. Tiny things can upset the balance with dramatic (negative) effects.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2015 8:41:15

koenie17

Posts: 438
Joined: Feb. 25 2011
From: España

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

Your picado was allready sounding great, so every (minor)adjustment you think that'll
Improve it even more... all I can say try and see if it feels and sounds ok?
I wish my picado sounded as good as yours!!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2015 9:28:30

machopicasso

Posts: 973
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

quote:

Do you hear any difference in tone?

Well, I can't hear the TV in the background, so that's throwing me off a little.

I'm not sure how reliable my memory is of your earlier picado videos. That said, my impression is that your picado in this video is cleaner in execution.

But, yeah, I agree with Ramzi that putting up two videos would make the comparison a little easier.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2015 10:43:56

JohnWalshGuitar

Posts: 517
Joined: Aug. 10 2009

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

Juan,
In my opinion your picado technique is wonderful as it is. Whereas I have changed hand positions etc in the past, in your case, due to your already highly developed picado technique(from which you get a great sound as well as speed), I would be careful when considering a change.
I have heard a horror story or 2 of people developing focal dystonia after attempting complete technique overhauls. Whereas the causes of FD can rarely be empirically determined, there is enough anecdotal evidence to avoid a big change.
I could be wrong on this, it is just an opinion but I think your technique is already top class. I would prefer to see you writing more stuff so I can listen to it

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2015 14:02:42

Blondie#2

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to JohnWalshGuitar)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWalshGuitar
I have heard a horror story or 2 of people developing focal dystonia after attempting complete technique overhauls.

Yes, that's exactly what I was alluding to above, interesting you have come across folk too. I'd say its more than anecdotal, I have read it in papers on the subject (one of several common precursors to FD).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2015 14:16:34

JohnWalshGuitar

Posts: 517
Joined: Aug. 10 2009

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to Blondie#2)

Interesting Blondie, I mean in my experience the only evidence is anecdotal. I would like to read some of the papers you speak about if you have access to them.
I have a good friend who was a fantastic classical guitarist whose right hand got crippled from FD. Still no idea what the cause was and still no improvement or long term prognosis. Very sad

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2015 14:34:54

Blondie#2

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to JohnWalshGuitar)

John I suggest your friend joins the Facebook group, massive source of help, information, advice and swapping of information about retraining, different approaches, plus discussion on some of the big names in FD who have had much success helping people retrain/recover (like Joaquin Farias).

A bit chaotic in trying to find stuff (no search facility like a website forum) but your friend might learn a few things.

Its certainly possible to recover - my hand was screwed through FD also but after many years of frustration I finally worked out what I had to do, took me a couple of years to fix it and I went on to pass my grade 8 in classical guitar.

I will try and dig out the papers, pretty sure this was one;
http://hth.sagepub.com/content/11/3/72.abstract

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2015 15:01:35

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

In this video, i feel like i'm hearing you lose some power as you speed up.

Not sure what the change is that you're describing.

Are you saying your wrist is more flat?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2015 15:56:12

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to rombsix)

I really appreciate all the replies. @Ramzi: I will definitely post both ways either tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for commenting. @Blondie#2: I'm just trying to search for more comfort on certain passages and it seems that by playing closer to the strings just a tiny bit it gives me the results that I want. But at the same time I don't want to sacrifice tone and possibly power.@Koenie17: Thanks for your comment.:) @machopicasso: Like I mentioned to Ramzi, I will post the two versions soon. @JohnWalsh: Thanks for chiming in. Now you have me thinking there. For a brief moment, I felt something funny on the top part of the hand(RH) but thankfully it went away. Maybe I should think twice about readjusting. Thanks again John. @Todd: I tend to agree with you regarding the loss of some power but I think I was just trying not to play too loudly. The change is that my RH is a little closer to the strings. You can say the wrist is more flat. Oh well, maybe I'm just getting now too obsessed with this. I appreciate your comment Todd. I'll see how it goes.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2015 20:01:14

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

Juan i think you should keep your original technique man, its
so great. I use your picado as a great model to study.
I wouldnt change it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2015 21:07:25

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

Juan i think you should keep your original technique man, its
so great. I use your picado as a great model to study.
I wouldnt change it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2015 21:13:56

pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

Juan i think you should keep your original technique man, its
so great. I use your picado as a great model to study.
I wouldnt change it.

+1

And another!

Best

pink

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2015 21:26:57

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

If I were were going try to be a guitarist I would be looking at your right hand as a relaxed example of a really fine picado.

One problem I have with a lot of guitarists who have monster picado is that it's simply not musical due to being pushed too hard. I think this is a major mistake. Yours is musical.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2015 1:24:10

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

Juan,

I don't know about the difference in your technique, but as others have said your picado sounds great. Are there any tips you can share to help somebody like myself develop a better picado technique? It looks like you hold your guitar like Paco Pena, are you using a Gitano support or something like that? I have been thinking about changing to that position from using a foot rest.

Thanks

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2015 21:04:26

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to estebanana)

Thanks Stephen. Thank you Cervantes. I believe my right foot was on the chair rest so I put the guitar on my right thigh and it seems that way. I think playing a scale with IM for example, starting with I stop the note immediately with M, then M, stop with I, etc..... (Using staccatto). Take a look at this.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2015 16:09:36

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

Atrafana's channel is great, with tons of great tutorials.

He's a great player and teacher. I often use his videos to learn material.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2015 17:35:38

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

Hey Juan, Atrafana is great at speed bursts but so are you man.

Here is an exercise exploring a few different ideas that you might enjoy. Sorry you can't see my RH and it is dark and all. It is kinda the opposite of speed bursts. But I don't have any advice on RH postition or on speed as I think you know more about them than I do.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2015 17:58:26

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

Atrafana's channel is great, with tons of great tutorials.

He's a great player and teacher. I often use his videos to learn material.

Absolutely. That's why I used his video. I hope he didn't mind.

Thanks Dave for the upload. Interesting. I'll check it out.

Ok, here are some comparisons with the RH position again. My hands were really cold and I was not warmed up. I think I'm gonna stick to the old way of playing. No sense in really changing. I think I'm gonna follow your advice Todd. In the first part of the video I want to change to the new position somewhere in between which is why you hear a slight break in the flow...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2015 2:59:54

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

guitarbuddah it sounds like you're playing an upright bass. :)

Move the camera down, and turn on a light next time!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2015 16:37:36

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to ToddK)

If I turned on the lights Todd I'd get a row for the colour of my strings.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2015 16:43:21

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

quote:

I think I'm gonna stick to the old way of playing. No sense in really changing.

Glad to hear you say that! whew! If it aint broke, dont fix it as they say lol.

Many of us here would DIE to have HALF of your technique man!!
I couldnt believe it when i saw you were thinking of changing!

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2015 16:43:38

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

Juan, is the change that you are lifting your elbow higher and trying to get more of a straight line in your wrist?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2015 17:46:32

minorthang

Posts: 222
Joined: Dec. 25 2014

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to jg7238)

ola juan i think great suggestions from john walsh work on compositions when i hear ou play picado the guitar goes back in the corner- you just astonish me with your playing maybe you can check out the players you admire and pick up a few simple things ? i.e see a few youtube vids - but I'm sure the will be in envy of u.

maybe one thing - extend the right arm reach over to tv and turn volume down as you record- we gotta hear you a little better

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2015 20:31:39

jg7238

Posts: 2869
Joined: May 11 2009

RE: Experimenting with the RH positi... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

Juan, is the change that you are lifting your elbow higher and trying to get more of a straight line in your wrist?

Not really Miguel. I was trying to place my hand a bit closer to the strings. You are partially correct as far as the wrist being more straight. I guess I was just experimenting but I'm not going to take that chance especially after John's very interesting post. @Minorthang: About the TV, again I will turn it down next time. I know a few members have made some comments about the TV including Grisha.

Sometimes I just forget. Oh well...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2015 19:00:04