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A simple measurement rig for string tensions   You are logged in as Guest
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rojarosguitar

Posts: 242
Joined: Dec. 8 2010
 

A simple measurement rig for string ... 

In case anybody is interested in real world measurements of string tensions I present here a simple rig to do these measurements.

So the idea is to tune exactly the string I want to check at the required scale length which can be adjusted to need to exactly the pitch I want to use, then wait until it settles and re-tune as often as it needs to remain stable. Then switching on the scale and zeroing it I quickly release the violin peg and here is the actual tension at that pitch with that scale length. Very simple, cheap and quite precise.







The movable raw bone nut serves the precise adjustment of your desired string length (scale length).

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)

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A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 18 2014 8:08:26
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7518
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: A simple measurement rig for str... (in reply to rojarosguitar

Do you happen to have or can you get a 0.54 over wound bass string? If you can tune it to low D or C and report the ( Smroomy terms) pounds of tension you find. Then do 0.58 at low B or A and you have the tension averages for tow lower basses on an 8 string.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 18 2014 9:54:32
 
rojarosguitar

Posts: 242
Joined: Dec. 8 2010
 

RE: A simple measurement rig for str... (in reply to estebanana

I might have one; I'll have to look through my old strings. I used to use a Hannabach deep C string for a tuning I use to play Cello Suites by JS Bach and I also could have a Pyramid one. 0.54 is measured in inches, I suppose. Can you give me the factor for kg - lbs calculation, because my scales is set up in kg which is unambiguous, whereas lbs seem to mean different things in different contexts.

If I find the strings, I'll make that measurement. What scale length would you want to know?
quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Do you happen to have or can you get a 0.54 over wound bass string? If you can tune it to low D or C and report the ( Smroomy terms) pounds of tension you find. Then do 0.58 at low B or A and you have the tension averages for tow lower basses on an 8 string.


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Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 18 2014 11:23:35
 
edguerin

Posts: 1518
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: A simple measurement rig for str... (in reply to rojarosguitar

quote:

I quickly release the violin peg

If I understand the setup correctly you get a "negative" value. Right?

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El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 18 2014 12:04:17
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7518
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: A simple measurement rig for str... (in reply to rojarosguitar

Try 660 or 655

Ever try tuning your guitar in 5ths to play the cello suites? It's really interesting. Also using a heavier string set and tuning in forths to D is pretty awesome, it takes you into a true baritone range.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 19 2014 1:24:08
 
rojarosguitar

Posts: 242
Joined: Dec. 8 2010
 

RE: A simple measurement rig for str... (in reply to estebanana

Not exactly flamenco, but here it is:



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Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 19 2014 16:51:45
 
rojarosguitar

Posts: 242
Joined: Dec. 8 2010
 

RE: A simple measurement rig for str... (in reply to edguerin

Yes, you have zero at the full tension and then with the release you have the negative figure for the actual tension.

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Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 19 2014 16:54:46
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7518
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: A simple measurement rig for str... (in reply to rojarosguitar

I like your feel for ornamentation. You save it up for the end of the line, and it's fresh sounding.

The Courante feels bit a muddly, it can be untangled a bit I think. Some phrases feel rushed together and that makes them not as clear as they could be. But other that four thumbs up. I mean the Courante is good, but a couple places it could have more space.

The Allemande has the breathing, you take a couple pauses in good places and also in the Prelude the pauses are real good. Many cellists don't take that long, but I like the space it s effective at setting up for the next run. I'm going to try to use the pauses more in the Prelude and see what happens.

One thing about the first half of the Prelude, the chords get played in sets of twos and I have been hearing them as something like a little dialog and grouping them together. Two chords talk about something then two more chords talk, then two more, then a run to the next group of chords. The chords speak, then two more then two more then another scale connection. Do you feel them that way at all?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 20 2014 13:00:40
 
rojarosguitar

Posts: 242
Joined: Dec. 8 2010
 

RE: A simple measurement rig for str... (in reply to estebanana

Thanks for your kind and informed comment. Yes, I know I do rush sometimes, especially when recording; it's funny that these little two electronic ears can induce some tension in the mind.

To be honest I didn't analyze the pieces but rather played them from what I hear. I have heard a lot of cello versions and have got some idea of what I hear in that music. I have played it from the so called 'Urtext' edition, where there are only bows that were present in the known manuscripts, there are not further performance marks by some editors in it.

That leaves a lot of space for one's own understanding (or the lack of it :-) ).

Coming back to the string: I have found one that has 0.0515" diameter (I'm sure you meant 0.054"; with 0.54" you could hang an elephant) and I will measure it's tension at the pitches and scale lengths you had asked for.

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Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 20 2014 14:36:37
 
rojarosguitar

Posts: 242
Joined: Dec. 8 2010
 

RE: A simple measurement rig for str... (in reply to rojarosguitar

Stephen,

OK, so I did measure the 0.0515" C-String (I believe it was a black Hannabach, so I'd expect a rather high tension). Here is what I get:

C: at 655mm scale length 6.26kg and at 660kg 6.32kg
(each measured once)

As the tension at D was palpably high and the peg could have given in, I did each time three measurments and present here the averages:

D: at 655 mm 7.86kg and at 660mm 7.97kg

Hope you can convert thaht in the type of lbs you need.

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Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 20 2014 20:46:58
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7518
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: A simple measurement rig for str... (in reply to rojarosguitar

7 kg to pounds is about 15 pounds which matches the 15 Lb average I mentioned in the other thread. A larger diameter string at will be slighter less tension tuned to C.

You're right I put the decimal places in the wrong place .054, with is about half of a tenth of an inch, but still enough to hang an elephant.

Here is a sample of Bach played on 7 string flamenco I built for Gavin Buckley, he is in Australia. He plays Air on G String pr tangos, but there's no rageo on this one. But you can hear the depth and focus of the bass notes. This guitar went out with a d'Darrio .056 overwound regular tension bass string. It designed with the string calculations and other structural investigations I made in 2009 and 2010 and built in 2012. At the point I made that one i had the benefit of having built two before it.

Sound sample 7 string Bach-
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=269626&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1


The little pop you hear at the end he snapped the treble E string, he said it was frayed, but instead of stopping he just finished the piece.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2014 0:31:36
 
rojarosguitar

Posts: 242
Joined: Dec. 8 2010
 

RE: A simple measurement rig for str... (in reply to rojarosguitar

I have measured the tension of Savagear Fluorocarbon fishing leader line 0.75mm (measured 0.77-0.78mm) string in a settled state (0.74mm) at 650 scale length for g-3: its 5.4 kg which is a good replacement for D'Addario EJ43 g (5.23 kg at 648mm) or EJ45 g (5.39 kg at 648mm) and sounds tons better.

I have also measured a Seaguar Premier 0.52mm fluorocarbon (measured 0.535), settled (0.505mm) as e string at 650mm scale length: 6.68 kg.

This would give a nice lighter tension e-string, but fluorocarbon at this caliber to sound quite sharp or metallic; so maybe as a light e-string for a treble challenged guitar :lol:

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Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 29 2014 18:18:50
 
ddawson2013

Posts: 9
Joined: Jan. 2 2013
 

RE: A simple measurement rig for str... (in reply to rojarosguitar

Gentlemen:

don from D'Addario here - we launched a new tension app recently and thought you might find it useful. When I first started at D'Addario and we were looking into providing tension on string sets, we played with numerous inventions, not that dissimilar to what rojarosguitar posted pictures of.

www.stringtensionpro.com

Don Dawson
Product Marketing Specialist
D'Addario

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Don Dawson
Product Marketing Specialist
D'Addario / Planet Waves
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 31 2014 13:32:54
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