Foro Flamenco
Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira and Philip John Lee who went ahead of us too soon.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Advice about travelling to Spain with a Brazilian Rosewood Guitar   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
hvymetal1234

 

Posts: 20
Joined: Apr. 11 2013
 

Advice about travelling to Spain wit... 

Has anyone on the forum travelled to Spain with a newer Brazilian guitar? What would one need to do to jump through the proper hoops?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2014 22:46:10
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5779
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234

Well, in this aspect, Spain is like elsewhere:
If they stop you and ask, you need cites papers.

Braz rosewood is not the best for travelling. It creates burocratical problems and its "nervous" about humidity changes and cracks easily.

Consider bringing another guitar.

_____________________________

See the guitars I have for sale here:
http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com.es/p/guitars-for-sale.html

Fine flamenco and classical guitars: www.eliassonguitars.com
Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2014 8:50:58
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234

Lots of people take guitars in and out of Spain everyday. Many of them are rosewood guitars. There are many types of 'rosewood' and there are various species referred to as 'Brazilian'.
But how many people can correctly identify them?
If anyone asks, which seems unlikely, just tell them its Indian and stick to your story.

_____________________________

Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2014 9:57:15
 
keith

Posts: 1106
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Land of Daniel Boone

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234

As I understand it one needs to get a "passport" (read, multi-page application and a high fee) for one's guitar if said guitar contains D. nigra. Failure to acquire said permit can result in confiscation of one's guitar. There are a boat load of horror stories of guitars, bows, orchestra instruments being grabbed by CITES "police" and an equal number of horror stories of legit instruments being grabbed by over zealous CITES "police". Once grabbed it is on the owner to prove the instrument is legit. To make matters worse, the European Union upped the ante by increasing the "legal" date from 1992 to 1947.

The upshot is, cross a border at your own risk. If you do not have a permit and the guitar is grabbed by the CITES "police" nasty things can happen, the least being the loss of your guitar.

A few links for fun reading

http://www.fretboardjournal.com/features/magazine/guitar-lover%E2%80%99s-guide-cites-conservation-treaty

http://www.cites.org/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2014 12:38:55
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7502
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234

Leave it at home, you may be able to get into Spain, but you may not be able to get it back into the US. I'm presuming you are traveling out of the US??

Most of the time you will be fine at borders, but why take a chance with a nice guitar. There have been too many bad reports lately to chance it. If you do travel with it get your papers in order AND take duplicates to travel with in case your luggage or bag gets lost.

Dealing with customs check points has become a game of chance. It is a matter of moving through a customs gate and not knowing how stringent the checks will be that day. Sometimes customs officers they go in depth and really look and other times you get waived through, but it is not possible to know what will happen. As Keith said there has been cause for concern the past year.

Think carefully on this. The bottom line is if you travel without the proper documentation for this wood you are breaking U.S. laws and some international trade treaties, and maybe the laws of the EU. If a customs official wants to press the issue the law is on their side unless you have papers for your guitar.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2014 14:29:31
 
bernd

 

Posts: 678
Joined: Feb. 15 2004
 

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to krichards

quote:

ORIGINAL: krichards

Lots of people take guitars in and out of Spain everyday. Many of them are rosewood guitars. There are many types of 'rosewood' and there are various species referred to as 'Brazilian'.
But how many people can correctly identify them?
If anyone asks, which seems unlikely, just tell them its Indian and stick to your story.

You may think there are only fools working. Especially the German customs is very focused on natural products and does know, what´s on the list. If they are not sure, they call a specialist to let him check. The times where you could have told the customs officers fairy-tales are completely over for years. If you don´t have the papers, then you can be asured the guitar will be withheld. An expensive fun. Game Over.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2014 17:56:35
 
tele

Posts: 1401
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to bernd

For sure spaniards don't care. It's the US where the problems arise with everything even slightly illegal

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2014 18:04:14
 
keith

Posts: 1106
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Land of Daniel Boone

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234

some interesting reading about cites enforcement in spain. all it takes is one hot shot cites police or police wanna be and there goes a few thousand dollars down the toilet.


http://www.cites.es/en/Pages/default.aspx
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2014 18:54:14
 
hvymetal1234

 

Posts: 20
Joined: Apr. 11 2013
 

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234

Thanks for the excellent advice everyone. I'll bring the blanca.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2014 19:17:54
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11060
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234

How does one obtain documentation for a guitar, and a permit if needed? I looked at all links and did not find anything specific.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2014 21:46:40
 
Cloth Ears

 

Posts: 152
Joined: Apr. 26 2005
 

[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 11 2014 22:06:07
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2014 22:05:47
 
Cloth Ears

 

Posts: 152
Joined: Apr. 26 2005
 

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234

quote:

ORIGINAL: hvymetal1234

Thanks for the excellent advice everyone. I'll bring the blanca.


The blanca weighs much less anyway

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2014 22:07:47
 
flyhere

 

Posts: 121
Joined: Dec. 17 2012
 

[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 21 2015 23:59:18
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2014 23:24:18
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1418
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to Ricardo

If you call CITES in your own country, they tell you what to do and how to get.
It is a lot, will need some time, but you get the right documents for the guitar.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2014 6:40:45
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5779
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234

quote:

Thanks for the excellent advice everyone. I'll bring the blanca.


That was a very wise choice. For several reasons.

And just for the record, Spanish costums are a lot more strict now that they used to be.

_____________________________

See the guitars I have for sale here:
http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com.es/p/guitars-for-sale.html

Fine flamenco and classical guitars: www.eliassonguitars.com
Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2014 8:26:46
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Ok it looks as if I should be more careful in future.
I'll avoid travelling with a rosewood guitar, and stick to my blanca

_____________________________

Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2014 9:20:32
 
tele

Posts: 1401
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to krichards

One option is to put a false label with early construction year

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2014 16:25:23
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2814
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to tele

quote:

One option is to put a false label with early construction year


And run the real risk of being pulled into a secondary interrogation with a customs official who knows something about guitars and wood, and who asks questions you are unable to answer with certainty. You will then not only face penalties for violating CITES, you will also be charged with forging documents to circumvent the law. Expect a hefty fine and possibly prison time if you are caught.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2014 16:41:37
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2578
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to BarkellWH

In the 1970s I used to return from Europe via JFK Airport in New York.

On one trip I had with me two new Jose Ramirez 1a classicals I had bought for friends. i declared them, and said I would pay the customs duty. At the cashier's window, he moistened the back of a a $100 American Express Traveler's Cheque, causing the ink to smear.

"Why did you do that?" I asked.

"To tell whether it's counterfeit."

"I know, but why would I declare the guitars at full value, then pay with a counterfeit check. I could have just lied about the price and showed you a fake receipt."

"You never know what people will get up to."

The Customs inspectors at JFK generally ranged from gruff to rude. I usually bought a handful of Cuban cigars in Europe, and put them in my coat pockets to pass through Customs. Cuban cigars have been embargoed in the USA for decades. Opening my suitcase for the inspector, I was disappointed to see that I had absent-mindedly left the cigars in it.

The agent pounced on them. He held them up and asked, "What are these?"

"Cuban cigars," I replied.

He handed them to me and said, "Put 'em in your pocket, stupid."

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2014 18:19:56
 
hvymetal1234

 

Posts: 20
Joined: Apr. 11 2013
 

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Thanks Anders,

Just out of curiousity, what are the several reasons?

Ross
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2014 23:21:21
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5779
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to hvymetal1234

Sorry, several are 2... which I mentioned in my first post.

_____________________________

See the guitars I have for sale here:
http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com.es/p/guitars-for-sale.html

Fine flamenco and classical guitars: www.eliassonguitars.com
Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2014 8:17:42
 
Cloth Ears

 

Posts: 152
Joined: Apr. 26 2005
 

RE: Advice about travelling to Spain... (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson
And just for the record, Spanish costums are a lot more strict now that they used to be.


Yes: men must dress in matador costume and women must not be seen out without a lace mantilla on the head and a flower tucked behind the ear.



Oh...a typo from our Norwegian Luthier friend...

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 13 2014 10:14:07
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.203125 secs.