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Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Skai

Thats some greate advice there Grisha thanks

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 27 2005 20:08:11
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3527
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

Yeah, right on Grisha. Here is someone who is actually passing on some very useful and profound information.

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 27 2005 23:17:07
 
carlos soto

 

Posts: 126
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 3:08:12
 
carlos soto

 

Posts: 126
Joined: Oct. 22 2005
 

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

Grisha that's amazing, you can focus a lot more when your ego is set apart. That's a whole new perspective when it comes to practice. Thanks.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 3:10:32
 
Skai

 

Posts: 317
Joined: Sep. 12 2004
 

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

The thing about me is that, I'm practising barely an hour a day. And I'm also rather burned out everyday at work and I don't always feel like practising my exercises and learn new material. I just mess around or at the very most, practise pieces I'd already learnt by heart previously. Weekends aren't often that fruitful either.

I just wanted to find out how much and how you guys practise daily, in order to motivate myself.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 14:08:26
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3527
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Skai

Skai,
that's okay, you shouldn't worry about what anyone else is doing. Your life is unique, and there will be ups and downs. You may even go sideways.

Without spending two hours minimum of concentrated work, you almost surely won't progress to a professional level.

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 14:51:16
 
Mark2

Posts: 1688
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

Thanks Grisha for that great advice. I have a question about picado. Is your picado hand without tension when you play hard picado? This is something I can't do, which is why I suppose my picado is so bad. How do you get speed, volume, and power in your picado without tension?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 16:33:31
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3527
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

Mark,
I'm sure Grisha will have a great solution, but have you tried brushing the strings and playing "up"? I have a post about it in the last week. Basically, you use the feeling of brushing the strings with the fingers. Another description is flinging the fingers at the strings. You kind of let the strings roll off the fingertips. And you don't dig in, at least not at first, you play up, or the opposite the digging in. I think it helps optimize the motion and the attack. I have been doing this lately and I am absolutely burning (at least for me). Do the RH by itself first though.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 17:26:59
 
Grisha

 

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Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

That's good. The feeling can also be described as balancing the strings on your fingertips.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 17:49:46
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1257
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

Unfortunately, I don't think that proper picado, fast and loud, can be performed with no tension. Play a single loud note with a fast motion, as if you were playing some picado run. Feel the amount of effort this involves, the pressure or force you apply to the string. Do it with both fingers. Now try continuously pressing on the table with the same amount of effort in both fingers. Hard, isn't it? This is what you feel overall when you play very fast picado, where you have no time to relax your muscles. You are bound to get tired soon unless you are very very strong in your forearm, which I am by the way. If this is the kind of tension you feel when you play scales, than it's normal. If your feeling is different, you might be doing something wrong. I might be able to help you if you tell me more.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 18:05:31
 
Mark2

Posts: 1688
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

Thanks Miguel and Grisha. I'm happy to see that the tension is normal. I do run out of power way too soon, but also have very strong forearms-probably just not the right muscle. I seem to have more speed and better tone when I strike at an angle, but I have less control at slower speeds this way. I'm not sure if I should stick to one angle or try to develop the ability to play all three (hand angled forward, backward, and straight) Also, do you think practicing alternate patterns such as i,a - m,a - a,m,i have a big effect on your ability to play the standard i, m ? How much time relative to the regular i, m would you devote to these patterns? And do you think that alternating picado practise with tremelo or arpeggio relieves the stress on the tendons, or is it better to simply rest? Perhaps I'm just not putting in enough time. How much time per day do you think it takes to consistanly improve picado? Sorry for all these questions, but this technique has been my nemesis for twenty years and I apreciate any advice you can offer.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 18:29:24
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 18:42:22
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1257
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

Nail shaping and economy of attack are the keys to playing fast scales. I personally do not spend any extra time practicing i,m scales. I play all Segovia's scales with 3 fingers, i,m,a and a,m,i starting with every finger. This makes my right hand more balanced. I also used to do i,a and m,a combinations, but now I find them less useful. Well, i,a are great to practice because they are just as fast, but a,m just tense you up. The idea is to make all your fingers equally strong, and 3-finger scales do the job nicely. And yes, you should always rest between exercises.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 18:46:30
 
sorin popovici

 

Posts: 417
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

Hi Grisha ! I would like to ask u for some things too.
Btw , nice to see u here on this foro...I am from Romania , if u happen to play sometime in Romania please say smth.I would mean much to me to meet just for a couple of minutes or so.

When u play exercises for shifts ...what exercises do u use?
Also u have uploaded some time ago a little mp3 with the famous
flight of the bumblebee Rimsky Korsakov(please excuse my spelling on this name).
U promised then ,that u can suply a tab for that one ,can u help with this one(i still
havent found a tab or score that I can trust)

Also about technique,when u do scales what scales do u do?Diminished ,major ,minor,
augmented,modes etc. and what patterns thirds (c,d,e,d,e,g )...i mean if u happen to have some little good ideas of some exercises that would help.

Also about arpeggios ...do u find that beeing perpendicular on the strings gives u more
speed? I mean ....not having the wrist outward,but beeing like almost parallel to the face
of the guitar ?
Well , I have lots of question ...but more importantly how u're doing ?
Do u study classical in SUA? how's it going ,managed to get a scholarship ...things like that?
Ok, just one more ..do u do solfeggio and study harmony on piano ..do they teach u this
at school or u already knew it or it's just guitar for u?Ear training can u do things like
recognize this progression ,recognize the chord write the rhytm?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 18:57:16
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3527
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

Shroomy,
I'll try! It's kind of an abstract concept, a metaphor which may not be valid for everyone. But it makes a lot of sense to me and it has helped.

By the way, I agree with G. about nail shape (not that he needs my agreement! :)). I recently started "ramping" and it has contributed to more ease.

Shroomy, try to look at the string in a different light, not as an obstacle or a wire that must be fought, but as a simple, light piece of nylon that just needs to be displaced, or moved. As an experiment, brush the string with your i finger. When I say brush, pretend the tip of the finger is like the tip of a brush--flexible, soft. There is almost no force involved. (as an aside, you will probably firm the fingertip later, much later).

It is also sort of like a scrape, but to me it is much more brush. If brush doesn't work, try scrape. In my particular technique, the finger is held almost completely straight. this ends up giving you lots of leverage. Grisha's metaphor about balancing the fingertips on the strings is highly valid as well. If you were walking on the strings, would you have bent legs or straight? The good thing about straight fingers is that a tiny motion at the big knuckle will lead to a larger motion at the end (I think).

Anyways, Paco obviously doesn't play exactly this way. It looks like Sabicas and Pepe Romero do, as well as old-school picado flamenco players.

Brushing also works for rasgueados. Say, a downward p stroke. Don't strike the guitar aggressively. Pull or drag the thumb across the strings very lightly as if you were playing the harp. That is the motion. Now once you get a little control, you actually want to pull it with a little snap. There is not really more force, just more speed. That speed of course requires more force and will naturally push the strings lower. But if you keep the idea of brushing, it helps marshall what force you need economically.

But the picado and rasgueado are really the same idea, to me. A brush, the fingertips rolling, not being clawed or poked. Think of how a harp player looks...so gentle and relaxed, as they brush the fingertips. I think this is a good way to start.

On the other hand, combine this with daily Scott Tennant speedbursts and string crossings, starting with 5 minutes and build to 15 or more.

Eventually the stacatto feeling will integrate with the brushing, and you will be in business.

I practicing string crossing for several minutes each day, and speed bursts for about 10. I also play a lot of licks and jam once a week at my gig for 3 hours (rumbas mostly). Once you get the feeling that the string is rolling effortlessly off the fingertips, you can experiment with stiffening it and getting more volume.

Playing "up" really is a metaphor for using efficiency. These strings are light and do not have to be forced. So much of our effort and strength is wasted unless we find a highly economical way of playing. If we are not using our resources most efficiently, no way can we play a demanding technique like picado at 144 bpm sixteenths or more.

I hope this helps....keep asking questions if you have any!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 19:03:32
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1257
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

Sorin, I am sorry, I lost that file with my bumblebee and have to write it down again. For shifts I now play Segovia's scales at about 170, some spots from Rodrigo, the minor (octave) part of 17th caprice of Paganini, and Scarlatti sonata K. 159 at a very fast tempo. I recommend practicing the scales you already play, but adding one note at a time: first 2, first 3, etc. and then the same thing from the end of the scale: last 2, last 3, etc. I never questioned my arpeggio technique because it has always been easy for me. To answer your question about the benefits of either position I have to do a lot of analysis. Villa-Lobos study № 1 and Giuliani's study № 5 and Nana by Mario Escudero have been part of my daily practice routine for more than 20 years.

I am finishing up my Master's degree at NEC. I have already applied for a Doctoral program there. Yes, I had to do a lot of harmony and solfege in my undergraduate years, now I get to choose the classes I am taking. I take every composition and world music class I can fit into my schedule. Yes, I can write a chorale, compose a fugal counterpoint, label the harmonies in chord progressions, indicate non-chord tones, explain modulations, outline the form of a composition, write a dictation, solfege things in 7 clefs, but it all takes so much time to practice that I am glad I don't have to work on it anymore. Saves my time and energy for the guitar.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 19:41:05
 
sorin popovici

 

Posts: 417
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

ok,one more .....did u had these solfeggio ,dictation skills all along ? I mean when u did
u learn this ? I know that u played guitar since u were very little , but this academic
education when did it started ?


I have this little troubles ..I'm 24 I can play a little guitar ,not afraid to work on
technique and have almost decent technique ...but I lack some solid music education
and I wanna join an university but dont know if it's not too late for me for all the academic
stuff( I mean I know people that were doing solfeggios and take dictation since they
were 7 or 8 years old).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 19:51:27
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1257
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

I started all this academic stuff when I got accepted at the conservatory. Before that I only knew how to sight-read, but badly. I have been at the conservatory since 2000. I am turning 28 tomorrow. I don't think it's ever too late. In fact, the older you get the more seriously you take your studies.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 19:56:37
 
sorin popovici

 

Posts: 417
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

ok,one more ....and I'll turn off my flash ...it must be very unpleasant to be asked so
so many things.


The arpeggio things ....well yeah pima arpeggios is kind of simple ,but pami when
p and i hit the same string(this is very usual in flamenco i think) .How do u feel
about these arpeggios?

And ...I promise last one.I'm familiar with etude no.1 Villa Lobos .In that one
I think there's a ascending bass line ...now , do u do the notes that u play with the pulgar
apoyando(i think it would be easier to emphasize the bass notes ,if the pulgar would
play apoyando ,but at that speed ...apoyando for me doesnt seem to be a very good
choice for me.)or do u play free strokes with your pulgar?

Happy birthday,may u bring some new things to marvel in this guitar world !
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 20:05:31
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1257
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

OK, when I encounter the p,a,m,i where p and i are playing on the same string (like in Fandango that I play on the video), I do not play apoyando with the thumb. Otherwise, it should be no harder than the rest of arpeggios. Villa-Lobos can be played either way, but I prefer to play it free stroke, unless I want to emphasize the basses, which I rarely do. I created a whole system of different accents in this study for practicing purposes.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 20:16:17
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1257
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

By the way, yesterday I saw a couple of videos of Ricardo playing. It was my first time. He is one hell of a player! It would be interesting to hear what he has to say about picado, because his seems to be as fast as Paco's.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 20:23:47
 
sorin popovici

 

Posts: 417
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

aha ...but (and I know he's reading this) but for some reason...he just dont wanna show it.

I have this little theory ...people who played electric usually have better left hands
than the classical players (Toddk,Henrik(Duende),Ricardo)...but they struggle to
teach their right .Ricardo have succeeded to train his right ..in the
fingerstyle way,but still I think he is not mad about tremolo(cause it's so so
"classical")

The classical players usually have this other fobia ....left hand exercises :D.


Anyway ,please ...that's just my opinion (I'm thinking to pick play some riffs to get
my left in shape )Hope I didnt offend anyone with my observation ...but it's
very clear from all the people say (henrik said in one post "no trouble with left",
Todd in this thread "neah, no scales for me",Grisha u say "no arpeggios" that's easy
....well ,yeah ..after 2000 rehearsals of etude no.1 )

Classical players always say ...this little arpeggio,oh that's so easy.


I'm gonna get my *ss kicked for this post.... ,but i'm use to it by now
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 20:40:53
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1257
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

To get the coordination down play scales with 3 fingers. It's faster than pick. Or, just as fast.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 20:46:35
 
sorin popovici

 

Posts: 417
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

thanks ...yeap , right on spot ....I dont like a m i picado...it's hard to do it automatically
,back to the drawing board.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 20:48:29
 
duende

Posts: 3051
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Grisha

Congrats Grisha.

Im curious about your accents for practice purpose on the villa-lobos thing

Henrik

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 20:51:08
 
sorin popovici

 

Posts: 417
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

me too,i would like a little tip on this one.


------------------------------0------0----------------------------------
----------------------0----------0--------0----------------------------
-------------0-----------0-------------0-------0-------------------------
-----2-----------2---------------------------2-------2-------------------
--------2------------------------------------------2---------------------
--0--------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe that the "official" right hand notation is
pipipmiamaimpipi

but i've hear pepe romero does only pipipipipipipipi...etc
I find it hard not to accentuate if u use the official rh fingering the high Es (the are 2
of them on the 1 st string....well , if u accentuate it wrong ,that two E sound like a ...
DING DING at fast tempo )

ofcourse probably if u dont use the official rh fingering ...probably u'll get more fluidity
but u'll have to be faster .
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 21:11:46
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3527
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

Sorin,
I've noticed that too, but I think it's just because they've been playing so long. Also, it might be that RH is easier in most styles than classical/flamenco, so good LH is the Definition of progress.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 21:25:21
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1257
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

PiPiPmIaMaImPiPi and pIpIpMiAmAiMpIpI

Also accentuate each string every time you play it, keeping everything else quiet. For example, 6th - 1 time, 5th - 2 times... 3rd 4 times... 1st 2 times.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 21:34:16
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 23:09:08
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1257
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Question for everyone (in reply to Florian

Sounds like you are pressing too hard. It doesn't matter where you put your thumb as long as you understand that whatever pressure you apply with your fingers on the fretboard, is met with the thumb. You should never pull with your left hand elbow. To check if you are doing it right try to form the e-major chord with your left hand, and lift the guitar up with your left hand alone holding that chord. Be careful.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2005 23:25:44
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