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Put it in the MW-oven
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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 RE: Put it in the MW-oven (in reply to Ruphus)
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When I was a child I went to see an archeological dig in Calico CA in the Mohave desert where Louis Leakey had worked briefly. There were midden piles and charcoal fragments from cooking which were C-14 dated in the 1960's at over 50,000 years.
When I was in China I noticed a lot of facial features of Western Chinese ethnic peoples, non Han people who are Eastern Chinese natives, and the ethnic Chinese people would have very much in common with Plains Indians form North America. They did not at all look like the peoples from Central America and South, but had a tall bearing and the faces of Sioux tribes. I was not able to make it to Tibet in 1993, but a teacher I had went the previous year and said the same thing, that the Kampa people in Tibet looked remarkably like Sioux tribes.
By this time and I have not checked, but there is probably a comparative DNA database available....... but I searched this: 'DNA data on north america natives and Siberians' - You get this range of articles. I would also try a search on 'Comparative DNA North America Siberia' etc.
http://www.google.co.jp/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=DNA+data+on+north+america+natives+a+siberians&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gfe_rd=cr&ei=qRe6U7ydNIvH8gf2s4HIBg
By putting together the physical dating of actual habitation sites and tracking DNA routes the mapping of the migrations and times is becoming clearer. However one issue to consider is that many native groups of people do not subscribe to a western scientific notion of where their groups came from. Some individuals and groups in the cultures of North America that descended from the plains of West Asia hold to the creation mythologies of their groups. Other groups and individuals see room for both a scientific and a creation story interpretation of their origins. So one must take the cultural anthropologists data into consideration too, if for no other reason than to be respectful, but there are also markers a clues in the creation mythologies which can intersect with scientific discovery.
The Oceanic expanse was likely populated by seafaring groups from South East Asia and its thought that they island hopped all the way to Chile, Peru and Equador. The first archeological dates in Oceania begin to be solid about 15,000 years ago, but due to the nature of the conditions in the tropical oceans it is difficult to determine if earlier cultures made those trips and settled. The evidence would have vanished long ago. It's possible that So. America was inhabited by many groups at different times and had both a land migration over the Bering route as well a seafaring groups coming to Chilean- Peruvian shores.
Today the real interesting this is that Turkic and Caucasion DNA is being found in North American natives meaning the land routes would have brought groups all the way from Eurasia and regions of East Europe..(.which is interesting because between Hungary and Western China/Mongolia there used to exist a trade connection in my recent times.)
And lest this become a thinly veiled attempt at purporting to know something of archeology I would advise keep your guitar wood out of the microwave oven.
But then who am I to kibitz?
Stay thirsty my friends, and remember all the little snacks in the courtesy refrigerator in your room at The Emperador Hotel cost four times as much as if you buy them at 7-11 and bring them in a brown paper bag.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Jul. 7 2014 4:08:40
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Put it in the MW-oven (in reply to Ruphus)
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From your search, a NT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/12/science/earliest-americans-arrived-in-3-waves-not-1-dna-study-finds.html?_r=0
Very interesting read, including linguistic clues ( which I always find interesting. There are some certain idioms used in a same way in so many cultures. ... Or e.g. the ME culture where I am now, with its language is supposed to have more in common with French than with Arabian [ though vocabulary containing lots of Arabic words, naturally]).
Anyway, ...
quote:
Dr. Reich and his colleagues have developed a method to define the racial origin of each segment of DNA and have found that on average 8.5 percent of Native American DNA belongs to other races. They then screened these admixed sections out of their analysis.
Makes you wonder why, as there is no question that some European ethnicities made over to the American continent, probably even long before Erikson.
But then again, it says right after:quote:
Archaeologists who study Native American history are glad to have the genetic data but also have reservations, given that several of the geneticists’ conclusions have changed over time. “This is a really important step forward but not the last word,” said David Meltzer of Southern Methodist University, noting that many migrations may not yet have shown up in the genetic samples.
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What a loss for the Americas how natives have been deprived of their autonomy and been left behind either eliminated or as overweight degraded, hair spray drinking shadows of themselves. Some of the most beautiful cultures broken and depressed, hardly ressembling anymore their original ways.
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As a die-hard fan of some North-American natives´ living styles and designs, to whom in childhood was given a book with drawings of native objects and from then on carved his own knives, arch´n stuff ... I misuse the opportunity to sneak in one other time my sorta "Navayo rosette". 
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What do you expect about MW-dried wood? Could figures carved of it be splitting or warping in the aftermath?
Ruphus
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Date Jul. 7 2014 9:49:29
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Put it in the MW-oven (in reply to Ruphus)
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quote:
Nah; that looks more like an ear [ bot.] than anything.
I want the unique and punchy stylization of my brethren, and am certain in the same time that they are having other things to worry about than folks adoring their culture product and possibly borrowing items of it.
They besides sell beautiful artwork themselves, and should I ever come to realize another Rocky Mountain-crossing project, there shall hopefully be enough budget to buy me some of their beautiful clothings. ( My old fringe coat from 1977 is falling apart already. - Though not having left the closet since years now. Imagine one wearing such over here. )
I would not presume to put words in the mouths of native Americans, but I think your understanding of those cultures is a bit distant.
I grew up in the Mohave desert around several different indian tribe lands and I know a few indians who are university teachers. I've also traveled in the Navajo lands and I've talked to fair number if indians about how the images from their respective cultures are taken and used in other contexts. In general they don't like it, and they especially don't like white people making money from the misappropriation of their sacred images. It's not really a question whether they have other things to worry about, it's just not right.
Myself, I would not do it, especially for money, but I won't stop someone else from doing it. If a native person asked me to do it for the right reasons I would. I'm rather sympathetic to indian issues in particular as the areas in grew up in and the entire state of California was one of the last regions where native people were persecuted, driven off their lands and killed.
-The history of the genocide of California indians was still a _live oral history told by people I knew as a child who were very old_ . Today the narrative is still fresh in oral histories and painful in the stories of California indians.
Sorry to pull rank on you, old pal, but you're not born from indian lands and I am.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Jul. 8 2014 8:37:30
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Put it in the MW-oven (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
The Oceanic expanse was likely populated by seafaring groups from South East Asia and its thought that they island hopped all the way to Chile, Peru and Equador.
Oceania indeed was populated by seafaring groups from Maritime Southeast Asia, most notably from today's Indonesia. But the origin of the groups who settled in Maritime Southeast Asia is pretty well established to have been Taiwan. Linguistic analysis traces the origin of the Pacific Islanders from Taiwan through the Philippines, and on to the Malay (Indonesian) Archipelago. From there they spread throughout Oceania. All of the languages of Oceania, from Madagascar through the Solomons, up through Palau, Micronesia, and the Marshalls, as well as the entire Polynesian triangle (New Zealand, Hawaii, Rapa Nui, and the islands within--Samoa, Tahiti, the Marquesas, etc.)--are known linguistically as Malayo-Polynesian. When I was in Samoa I detected certain words and cognates that were similar to Malay, which I speak well. For example, the Malay word for the number five is "lima," which is the word for five in Samoan as well.
Speaking of Polynesia, one of the most interesting islands in that group is Rapa Nui (Easter Island). While assigned to the American Embassy in Santiago, Chile, I visited Easter Island and spent five days rambling around. It has a very interesting history and is an example of a people who, after carving from stone and moving to various locations their signature statues, known as "Moai," proceeded to completely destroy their environment, engaging in destructive ecological practices (completely denuding the island of trees) and warfare, eventually pulling down every single moai.
Easter Island has attracted some well-respected anthropologists such as JoAnne van Tilberg, but it has attracted some real far-out types as well. Thor Heyerdahl, (of Kon Tiki fame) has tried to convince everyone, against all evidence, that the people of Rapa Nui (Easter Island) originated from Peru and Ecuador, rather than Eastern Polynesia. And remember that charlatan Eric von Daniken, who was convinced that the moai on Easter Island were created by aliens from outer space who landed there! The moai are spectacular, but they attract some real nuts with outrageous ideas (but I guess such far-out ideas sell to a gullible substratum who will believe anything).
As for buying snacks at the local Seven-Eleven and sneaking them into the Emperador Hotel, rather than taking the snacks from the Emperador's room refrigerators and paying four times the cost one would pay at Seven-Eleven, you seem to forget that only the cream of society lodge at the Emperador. No self-respecting guest at the Emperador would think of stooping to such a common, plebeian practice. You, sir, have just made a thinly-veiled attempt to besmirch the reputation of a long list of distinguished guests who have lodged at the Emperador. Such an attempt borders on slander and calls for settlement on the field of honor. Your choice of weapons, sir.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Jul. 8 2014 19:37:06
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Put it in the MW-oven (in reply to Ruphus)
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With respect to Däniken: Without intending to defend him, I think it worth mentioning that he received the academic guild´s respect for his works in Mexico, and for finding entrance to a certain pyramid.
And who would mind his escapades into space in view of artefcats like this:
I used to know a Silicon Valley person ( very nice guy, I miss him) who in the seventies was taken by Däniken. In fact I think to have first heard about Däniken from him.
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Andy,
Why will the blanks be covered with wax? To seal against humidity?
Is the rosette motive meant as rounds separated by rhombs, or as kind of pillars on wings?
( Here are rounds & rhombs from North American tribes:  )
And what about the drying / curing matter?
Could blanks rapidly dried down to perfect water content be used reliably, or would the material still need to be stored for a long while?
Ruphus
PS:
Funny coincidence. Guess what was televised late last night in German TV special series "Terra-X"? A documentary about the historical persecution of Indians in California.
Yesterday talked about in this thread, in the night then served a film about exactly that.
( It´s weird, but I am experiencing a lot of thelike funny coincidents in time.)
- Oh, and it was said that the eagle is the highest creature to them, because of it coming closest to the sky. ( In truth vultures should be circling even higher, but anyway.)
What a coincidence again!
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Date Jul. 9 2014 9:14:05
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Put it in the MW-oven (in reply to Ruphus)
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Ruphus,
Eric von Daniken is known by the true community of scientists and researchers as a fraud and a charlatan. He not only claimed that the Moai of Easter Island were made by extraterrestrial visitors from outer space, he also made many other claims that were fraudulent. Von Daniken claimed that the Nazca Lines in Peru were created in order to provide landing sites for extraterrestrials' space ships. He invented a story about underground chambers in Ecuador that contained evidence of extraterrestrial visits. And his work in Mexico is not known for any breakthrough discoveries.
A real scientist, Carl Sagan, succinctly described von Daniken and the gullible followers who swallowed his nonsense.
"That writing as careless as von Däniken's ...should be so popular is a sober commentary on the credulousness and despair of our times...[and evidence of} object lessons in sloppy thinking. I know of no recent books so riddled with logical and factual errors as the works of von Däniken."
The above-cited quote from Sagan describes the scientific community's view of von Daniken, and it also describes the gullibility and lack of critical thinking of his followers.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Jul. 9 2014 15:33:13
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]). 
) 
Sorry, but that personality could definitly not serve as an example for scientifical integrity.