RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE VOTE]

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[Poll]

** Changes to the Forum [POLL IS CLOSED]

Drop the Off Topic section entirely

5% (11)

Lock the Off Topic section (for reference)

0% (1)

Keep the Off Topic section, with new rules

28% (53)

No political, sexual or religious discussion (anywhere)

25% (46)

No more personal attacks or rudeness (zero)

39% (73)

Total Votes : 184

(last vote on : Jun. 5 2014 15:25:54)

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cabezadevaca

Posts: 11
Joined: May 26 2014
From: Mid-Atlantic State

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to Leñador)

I would suggest one new rule, that you can be as rude and insulting as you like as long as its in Spanish. I think this would satisfy a need for a certain amount of cross-cultural immersion.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 13:59:08

Blondie#2

Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 14 2010

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

quote:

The most infuential member was booted-off for spurious legal reasons (do not tell us agin that that other dude could have sued - hogwash).
There's very little usable flamenco educational information here anymore.
The users argue and backbite constantly, the foro is flooded with political threads posted by disgruntled marxist neophyte philosophers.
The snobbery is stunning (the horrible attitudes of know-it-alls who want to prove they know more about flamenco than everybody else).
The endless threads about a silly guy selling bad guitars.
And the most egregious error was the absolutely disgusting, horrifying, disrespectful attitudes displayed to women who attempted to become part of the group!

Akatune, you put it in a very harsh manner, but basically i agree with most of it. Your last point I totally agree. I really felt ashame of being a foro member last time a bunch of dorks got horny and spammed the foro completely because a member was of female gender.
That was so far out neanderthal and a couple of guys should have been send away for a period. It was soooo low.
Its just an example and there are many of thems.

This thread is such a breath fresh air - at last!

The current voting is really encouraging, its about time these issues were sorted. Agree with Anders and Akatune, with exception of the 'legal reasons one' as I wasn't reading the forum during that period so can't comment.

On the sexism issue I find the misogyny in this forum pretty appalling, no wonder we have so few (female) dancers here. The other thing that I'd add to the above is the casual homophobia you get here almost daily, its schoolboy central.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 14:07:54

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to cabezadevaca)

This is what must happen.

We will create a board called the FCC (Foro Censorship Commission). This board will review your posts and decide if you should be banned completely or if a fine should be waged, some of these include;
Saying one of the "Seven words you can never say on TV" - $200
Going off topic within your post - $50
A joke beyond a flamenco related quip - $200
Not being serious - $150
Wardrobe malfunction - BANNED

We here at the FCC are committed to ensuring all foro members have the right to their Norman Rockwellian world where poops smell like Roses and your Nana is a virgin.

I learned textual sarcasm from you too Bananasan lol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 14:09:22

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

This is what must happen.

We will create a board called the FCC (Foro Censorship Commission). This board will review your posts and decide if you should be banned completely or if a fine should be waged, some of these include;
Saying one of the "Seven words you can never say on TV" - $200
Going off topic within your post - $50
A joke beyond a flamenco related quip - $200
Not being serious - $150
Wardrobe malfunction - BANNED

We here at the FCC are committed to ensuring all foro members have the right to their Norman Rockwellian world where poops smell like Roses and your Nana is a virgin.

I learned textual sarcasm from you too Bananasan lol

In addition to those fines, a serious offender should be given ten lashes with a sixth string. While the string is still on a guitar.

Ramon

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 14:14:53

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to cabezadevaca)

Or maybe the moderator after defining the standard of behavior in excruciating detail, could issue demerits on a graduated scale depending on the seriousness of the transgression. At x number of demerits punishment would move to a higher level with an indelible mark on the miscreants page, color coded to indicate the extent of his/her infraction(s). As the color of the mark changes with continued demerits, the max level would be reached incurring a black mark which would automatically deprive the wretch of all privileges granted to members in good standing.
Those with a religious bent might prefer a system modeled on the pre Vatican 2 Catholic church, in which sins are classified as venal or mortal with indulgences for good works granted for the remission of sins or rather the corporal punishment due sins stipulated in days saved from the holy fires. Given the deep and historically tenacious mysticism in Spain this might appeal to those with a identification with Spanish culture. Though I don't suppose the gypsy gives a fig for any of that.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 14:49:40

edguerin

Posts: 1578
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

Historical reference to religion, politics or sex in the context of flamenco is very different from posting personal convictions or worse, bigotry. I would expect common sense in this respect.

I fully agree!!!!!
When I joined back in 2007, I was all exited about having found a "true" flamenco forum.
A couple of years ago I told my teacher in Sevilla about it, and he was interested and wanted the url. I haven't given it to him, because I feel it wouldn't make the best of impressions on a Spaniard interested in reading what foreigners have to say about flamenco.

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 15:39:05

Mark2

Posts: 1761
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to cabezadevaca)

I didn't vote because like Budda, I didn't see my views represented. I rarely read the off topic section, but do enjoy it when I do because it gives insight into the lives of the members. I especially enjoy reading about the older folks like Richard and Bill whose posts about their interesting careers and personal lives enrich the forum IMO. It gives perspective to their posts on flamenco matters. Also, the idea that some are "know it alls" trying to one up others......isn't the purpose of the foro to exchange information and views about flamenco? It's up to the individual to weigh the value of the opinion presented, and background information often contained in off topic posts assists in that. IMO, one of the problems with the flamenco -teacher forum was that newbies would post absurd assumptions, which would sometimes go un challenged, perhaps because a person with more knowledge didn't want to be perceived as a know it all. Some things related to flamenco are not matters of opinion, they are simply facts. When I started participating in flamenco forums I was deep into studying dance accompaniment and cante and all matters flamenco. The access I had to the knowledge from folks with the experience to know certain things was what made the time spent online worthwhile. Finally, I must have missed the part where we drove away all the women. The forum is dominated by guitarists and guitar makers. There are few women involved in those activities. I'm sure a few dancers have shown up, and finding no threads on dance, simply stopped visiting.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 17:15:07

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3529
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to cabezadevaca)

I don't think R****s or A*****s or maintaining flamenco purity is the problem, so much as a general culture of abusiveness. At the risk of going "back in the good old days" on you, I think it's mostly due to an influx of younger people without social skills. We have always had flame wars, but they stood out amidst moderately cordial interactions. There have always been people who didn't like each other, but the environment wasn't so acidic. A useful forum is impossible if people can't be bothered to write coherent sentences, if they lace their posts with casual vulgarity, throw out insults without any thought. That's what your twitter and Facebook is for. A forum is a permanent, searchable record of a discussion, not a throwaway note that you pass to your buddies in the back of the classroom. There might be the excuse that drunk flamencos curse and generally act reprensibly at their juergas, so we should too. No dice. Go to a juerga if you want to get trashed and indulge your potty mouth.

How do you change a culture where disrespect is the norm? Strong moderation that gives a couple private warnings and then bans. In real life, you get punched in the mouth or otherwise excluded if you don't mind your manners. Here, a mod has to be the bad guy. Not a job for the faint of heart. And there's no guarantee it will work.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 17:21:44

vigrond

Posts: 161
Joined: Nov. 30 2010

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to cabezadevaca)

Kind of a wild suggestion but -

it would be kinda cool if there were reddit-style upvoting/downvoting for posts

so if someone was a legitimate **** and their vote was below a certain threshhold, it would be hidden from future views.

so it would no longer give the impression to future potentials that this is a dickish community

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 19:16:57

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to vigrond)

the truth ...you cant handle the truth ...
its really, .. when your on the computer and you dont like what you read, just find the ESC and dont loose Ctrl

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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 19:57:30

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to cabezadevaca)

quote:

it's mostly due to an influx of younger people without social skills.

Really???
Who?? At 30 I think I'm the youngest regular poster……….Is it me???

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 20:01:08

Bulerias2005

Posts: 628
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

quote:

it's mostly due to an influx of younger people without social skills.

Really???
Who?? At 30 I think I'm the youngest regular poster……….Is it me???

I'm 22, I think I might take the cake on "youngest member"... I've always blamed my horrible social skills on homeschooling. Everyone *did* tell me that I'd be a social outcast and unfit for society if I didn't go to public school!

;)

_____________________________

Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 20:08:14

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to cabezadevaca)

quote:

I'm 22, I think I might take the cake on "youngest member"

Ah yeah, your fowl mouth makes me bluish Daniel.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 20:16:50

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to Leñador)

Lenny, we share the same age!

Ain't that cute?

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 21:27:34

athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to cabezadevaca)

This post was removed because it fails to meet our Community Standards

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 21:38:49

El Burro Flamencuro

Posts: 118
Joined: Nov. 28 2012

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

quote:
it's mostly due to an influx of younger people without social skills.

Music and especially flamenco is a great outlet for these types of people...aka myself included. The age thing doesn't matter though.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 22:00:32

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to athrane77)

This post was removed because it fails to meet our Community Standards

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 22:08:17

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to athrane77)

quote:

I think it's mostly due to an influx of older guys with a big stick in the a$$.

This says it all doesn't it. Everything about vulgarity and cross generational strife. 2 demerits or 100 days in purgatory.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 22:38:12

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

2 demerits or 100 days in purgatory.

That's too extreme, I don't think those older guys deserve it.

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 22:43:03

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to Sr. Martins)

No, as a high-minded member of this forum I refuse to get drawn into your base imagery.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 22:56:48

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to aeolus)

Mr Martins please take the hook from your mouth.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 23:01:18

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to cabezadevaca)

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 23:08:58

runner

Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to cabezadevaca)

Simon, I have long valued and appreciated your poise and equanimity in administering this Foro. It should certainly be a prerogative of such a position of responsibility--nay, it should be a given--that you be entitled to use entirely your own well-demonstrated excellent judgement in deciding how to rule on matters of Foro misuse. You have allowed the Foro "membership" to air their views, and that's fine, but I would fully support your ultimate autonomy in directing the course of the Foro. You be The Man!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 4 2014 23:25:32

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to cabezadevaca)

[Deleted by Admins]

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2014 0:07:26

estebanana

Posts: 8759
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to cabezadevaca)

quote:

I would suggest one new rule, that you can be as rude and insulting as you like as long as its in Spanish. I think this would satisfy a need for a certain amount of cross-cultural immersion.

You mean like when Morante called all Americans cabrons? And then I said "Lenador, you are a Cabronifornian."

or is that Spanglish?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2014 0:13:42

estebanana

Posts: 8759
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to athrane77)

This post was removed because it fails to meet our Community Standards

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2014 0:20:00

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to cabezadevaca)

quote:

You mean like when Morante called all Americans cabrons? And then I said "Lenador, you are a Cabronifornian."

Si si si yo soy yo soy.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2014 0:52:27

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to Escribano)

Ironically, this thread has turned exactly into what would best explain the reason why Escribano posted it.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2014 1:22:04

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to gj Michelob)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2014 1:24:22

estebanana

Posts: 8759
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: ** Changes to the Forum [PLEASE ... (in reply to cabezadevaca)

The thing that Ron did was make sure the jokes were being read as jokes, now everyone gets offended by funny remarks. He had a talent for smoothing things together and a kind of humor diplomacy. Now if you joke around like you did with Ron some guy gets his panties in a big wad and starts balling his eyes out.

There's just a bunch of stiff backed guys here who can't take an F-inf joke! A whole bunch of guys who take themselves WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too seriously.

A fat bag of sticks needs ot be pulled out of a whole stadium of humorless tight asses.

Now gentlemen, I will passing out pliers, please see to it you pull the sticks out. Just push it out. It's not as painful as having a baby and I kwow you can do this.

Obviously I'm not Ron- who could ever fill those shoes.

I remember the time Ron started a thread about naughty dog who toted a sex toy down the stairs when the owners were entertaining their parents. I thought to myself, Oh no he didn't, and then I laughed because yes he did. Ok that had a element of disgust, but he made it funny.

And wearing a Tomatito wig and recording Bulerias! Priceless! See he was funny and he made fun of himself and took chances and let it all hang out. Some of you guys are so tight and judgmental you cant let go and wear a wig and do a prank. I will not take anyone seriously until they make a fool of themselves and stop acting too cool for school. This is not a protracted contest to show how cool you are.

Do something dumb for gods sake, BE REAL!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2014 2:12:50