I Need A One Way Ticket from Classical to Flamenco.

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aljabriya

Posts: 4
Joined: May 28 2005

I Need A One Way Ticket from Classic...

Dear All,
I'm a Classical Guitar player from Kuwait and wish to learn Flamenco. I already have mastered Rasguedos, Picado, Golpe, Legato, Flamenco Tromolo, Parada, Alzapua...etc. I'm also fluent in music theory. However, I lack Flamenco music theory and need to know how to put it all together.

What I'm looking for is direct examples "tabs" and information about:

Various Flamenco scales and their harmony. e.g. Por Medio, Por Ariba, the only two I know.
Flamenco chords and function of different chords, 7th 6th dim...etc.
Flamenco Songs and their forms.
Tricks and techniques.

I would be grateful it if someone could show me examples "tabs", put me in the right direction and show me what else I would need.

Best regards.
Aljabriya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 6:57:36

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: I Need A One Way Ticket from Cla... (in reply to aljabriya)

Aljabriya,
Firstly, welcome to the Forum!
Secondly....I think you are approaching this from the wrong angle.
No amount of tabs will turn you from a Classical player to a Flamenco player.
It's an advantage that you have some knowledge of Flamenco techniques, like rasgueado, alzapua etc...but if you can't find a proper Flamenco teacher *, you will have to start with one of the DVD/Video/Book courses such as Juan Martin, Oscar Herrero, Graf-Martinez etc.
Compás, or rhythm is the core which all Flamenco revolves around, and without a good understanding of this you will never understand the phrasing or rhythm of the pieces you are attempting, regardless of how good your technique is.

*(Read the post by Phrygus "The Inflation of the term Flamenco")

If you search through the archives you'll get some reviews on these DVD/Video/Book methods.

Good Luck!

It's a long haul, but it's fun!

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 12:37:49

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: I Need A One Way Ticket from Cla... (in reply to aljabriya)

Hi aljabriya welcome,

I agree with Ron no amount of written theory will help you here, u mastered the techniques you say, greate !! now comes the hard part

I think the best source of information to all of your questions is everysingle flamenco cd you can get your hands on. The more you listen the more you hear different things litlle by litlle it will rub off on your playing.

You will learn for yourself what works and what dosent, what you wanna use and what u dont, the theory is different for each person.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 12:47:56

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: I Need A One Way Ticket from Cla... (in reply to aljabriya)

I agree with the most part of what Ron and Flo say - an understanding of music theory in the context of flamenco is not the 'magic link' that will just put it all together for you.

but I understand how someone with your background might be helped with some theory at least as a 'way in' or to get some kind of handle on it. With that in mind, these should be helpful:

http://members.aol.com/BuleriaChk/private/compas/theory/Theory.pdf
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/Palos.pdf
http://herso.freeservers.com/index.html

Middle link is from Tom's page, a regular here.

_____________________________

Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 13:34:44

sorin popovici

Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania

RE: I Need A One Way Ticket from Cla... (in reply to aljabriya)

cool theory pdf ,thanks Jon!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 15:17:20

aljabriya

Posts: 4
Joined: May 28 2005

RE: I Need A One Way Ticket from Cla... (in reply to aljabriya)

Thank you all.

Ron.M & Florian, you are right. I'm at the wrong end of it. I approached flamenco the same way I study science. I understand what you are saying. Thank you. Would you kindly advise me on whom to listen to? And what to listen to? eg player+piece = eg of a flamenco form. Flamenco, to me, is a foreign language and I need to learn its grammer, vocabulary and phrases.

The links by Jon Boyes, much appreciated, are exactly the sort of theoritical info I'm looking for. I build up alot of information on given examples to establish simple basis for the form I'm studying.

All flamenco techniques I mastered are right hand techniques that I never used before for classical guitar. I started my comitment to flamenco around March/2005. For example, I spent good three months just learning rasguedos. My sources are limited to some books and a metronome.

I see my self as knowing and posessing the ingriedients but unable to cook the dish; flamenco fire is burning me and I'm looking for a recipe.

I believe I need to be guided.

Thank you again.
Aljabriya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 21:25:14

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: I Need A One Way Ticket from Cla... (in reply to aljabriya)

aljabriya,
There is no great secret, or key, or tricks.
Flamenco is not a "flavour" you can add in to your playing.
This is a substantial "stand-alone" art form that needs no others to support it.
My advice would be to get your hands on as many Flamenco CD's as you can get hold of.
Not all at once, of course...but maybe one at a time and just listen!
Flamenco-World.com and DeFlamenco.com will readily ship to your part of the world.
I've ordered lot's of stuff from them and they are highly dependable companies.
Get some early Paco de Lucia stuff...solo guitar along with a CD or two of him playing for El Camaron de La Isla".
I think this will give you more of a feeling for the thing.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 22:24:30

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: I Need A One Way Ticket from Cla... (in reply to aljabriya)

I would suggest.

Fantasia Flamenca and maybe "solo quiero caminar" to get a traditional and moder sound.

some sabicas would be good for more trad sounds. and Paco Peña.

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2005 5:43:51

aljabriya

Posts: 4
Joined: May 28 2005

RE: I Need A One Way Ticket from Cla... (in reply to aljabriya)

Hi all,

Thank you so very much.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2005 3:00:44

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: I Need A One Way Ticket from Cla... (in reply to aljabriya)

Hm Imo Fantasia Flamenca can be confusing as a introduction into Paco and flamenco.

Fabulosa Guitarra is easier to understand to me and the Camaron stuff is just a Standard and must have! :)

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2005 4:13:09

edgar884

Posts: 1975
Joined: Nov. 16 2005

RE: I Need A One Way Ticket from Cla... (in reply to aljabriya)

Im a beginner myself, but I have some great Theory on Flamenco at my site. Check it out and let me know what you think. http://www.gabrieledgar.com/classroom.html

_____________________________

May we find God through Flamenco instead of Angels and Demons

www.gabrieledgar.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2005 16:03:27

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: I Need A One Way Ticket from Cla... (in reply to aljabriya)

Aljabriya

I too started as a classical guitar player and transitioned to flamenco. I agree with Ron who said you are approchaing this the wrong way, and I'll even go further then Ron. Tabs and sheet music is not the right way to learn flamenco, nor is focusing just on technique. I understand where you are coming from and hence why this would be your natural first approach.

Flamenco is learned by listening, by following and by feeling.

My suggestion is if you can afford it, go to Spain for a few weeks and study with a teacher (I'm assuming flamenco teachers in Kuwait are not something you find in the market...).

The next best thing is get a DVD. I would recomend the Oscar Herrero DVDs. If you've already mastered most of the technique you can start with DVDs 4 & 5 which teach Solea. Another good DVD that gives an overview of many palos in the merengue de cordoba DVD.

Another suggestion, if you get the DVDs, don't look at the tab books that they come with. Try to learn just by watching the DVD and playing with it. From my experience, getting detached from tabs and notation was a big step towards really feeling the music. Its more difficult, but I think its more rewarding.

_____________________________

Guy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2005 17:52:45

aljabriya

Posts: 4
Joined: May 28 2005

RE: I Need A One Way Ticket from Cla... (in reply to aljabriya)

Dear All,

Season's Greetings.

I'm grateful to the amount of attention paid to my question. I took your words of advice and expermentd with all what you have suggested.

Although it's difficult, I feel I'm progressing.

Thank you.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2005 23:21:04