Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!!

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fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!!

I don't get it....I feel like I'm the only one that has no idea what this means! Can someone please explain Por medio y Por arriba as if I was a small child?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2005 23:31:38

sorin popovici

Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to fevictor)

I dont know what this means also.Somebody please help us non spanish speakers.

All I know is that arriba means backwards and abajo in front .Still sometime
I dont get it ,for example Nunez says in the encuentro video just before his solea por bulerias that u got to tune "la sexta ,la quinta y la quatra medio tono abajo"....now at that
point I think oh so E#,A#,D#, then says he just the oposite "sera Mi bemol , La bemol y Re bemol".Excuse me for the bad spanish ...but as I said i dont know spanish,I understand
some cause it's close to romanian...but the writing it's not that close.

Also sometime apparently medio means smth else, like "solea por medio".
I dont exactly what's that ...but i think por medio means that u'll play
from A phrygian.Now , I hope someone will clarify ...in how many ways can u use these
words "medio" "arriba" "abajo".

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2005 23:54:58

carlos soto

Posts: 126
Joined: Oct. 22 2005

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to fevictor)

I think that's related to where you put the capo... I'm not very sure about it maybe someone experienced can clarify this. Anyway por arriba would mean like a higher key and por abajo a lower key as the cantaor would tell the guitar player to adjust his key to the singing prefered key...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 0:41:36

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to fevictor)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 1:06:01

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to Guest)

Yeah, its quite simple. Like Carlos said, I believe that these terms originally were used by, say... gypsy cantaors, who usually weren't to familiar with music theory. So they would tell the guitarist to play por arriba or por medio Essentially por arriba is E (whatever mode) and por medio is A. Upper strings on the guitar or middle strings on the guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 1:53:15

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to fevictor)

quote:

I dont know what this means also.Somebody please help us non spanish speakers.

Thats not the problem...I am fluent in spanish.

But I gather from what I read that this is not exactly important to know?? Its just that I hear these terms used alot in flamenco guitar.

And by the way Lionel: Por arriba means "on top" or "above"
"From above" would translate into "De Arriba".

Nonetheless, thanks for the input. (although I still know nothing!!!)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 2:47:57

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to fevictor)

quote:

"Por medio" is a finger position on the guitar and has no bearing on rhythmic possibilites...I assume you meant soleá por bulería, which, like soleá and bulería, can be played por medio (A postion) or por arriba (E position)....and other more avant-garde options which have become available in recent years. In other words, we're talking *right* hand, not left hand.

Estela 'Zata'

I found this by just searching for "medio". I guess this problem is solved, isnt it?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 2:57:49

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to fevictor)

Yes, that makes sense.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 3:06:44

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to XXX)

if you play Por arriba you play in E like serranas .solea ect. medio is in the key of A like tientos,bulerias solea por MEDIO etc

what would the call the D position?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 4:59:47

ahhlid

Posts: 9
Joined: Aug. 12 2005

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to duende)

quote:

ORIGINAL: duende

if you play Por arriba you play in E like serranas .solea ect. medio is in the key of A like tientos,bulerias solea por MEDIO etc

what would the call the D position?

But why do they say "Por Arriba" and not simply say play in the key of E major? Does it mean that the guitarist should use certain standard chord shapes at specified fret positions? And what role does the capo have in this if any?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 5:13:55

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to ahhlid)

i don´t think that the capo has anything to do with arriba or medio.

i belive to have read somewhere that medio means in the middle of the guitar.
like the A chord shape use in flamenco is in the middle of the string.
Arriba. well it´s one the top string of the guitar in realtion to the floor.
normaly top top strings are the G B and E strings. But this refers to the D A and Low E.

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 6:03:05

El Becko

Posts: 49
Joined: Nov. 23 2005
From: Paris

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to duende)

Hello everyone,
I guess this is a good opportunity for my first post on the forum...

Here is what my professor told me :
- key of E => por arriba;
- key of A => por medio;
- key of D => por ababjo;
- other chords (like F# for the tarranta) => por dentro, which means "inside".

So yes, I believe this refers to the position of the left hand on the fretboard when you play the reference chord.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 9:06:05

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to El Becko)

Great post. This was what i tryed to say in my post

And welcome to the Ju..Foro

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 9:38:59

El Becko

Posts: 49
Joined: Nov. 23 2005
From: Paris

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to duende)

Maybe I should have introduced myself first...

So, here we go. I am El Becko from France. I have played electric guitar for several years, mainly blues, rock and funck... Then I made a big mistake : I basically stopped playing for some other years (you know, when you start to work...).

About a year ago I spent some vacations in Andaloucia and guess what... when I got back to France, I bought a flamenco guitar and took some lessons. I felt like I had to re-learn every thing: left hand, right hand, rythms/compas and so on. But it's worth doing it : I take so much pleasure playing the few falsettas I know now.

By the way, thank you all for the information you share on this forum. These are very valuable inputs.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 9:57:23

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to ahhlid)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ahhlid
But why do they say "Por Arriba" and not simply say play in the key of E major?

Because most singers don't (didn't?) know theory and don't know an E phrygian from an A minor. Tradition was therefore simply to point to the position on the guitar where the guitarist should place their fingers to give the sound/chords the singer liked.

quote:

And what role does the capo have in this if any?

That's another issue, that sets the overall pitch (key, if you like), but maintaining the tones produced by all those open string chords. So you can be playing por arriba whether you have no capo or whether the capo is at fifth or whatever.

Singer calls the shots on this too (where the capo goes).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 10:55:04

Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to fevictor)

This one confused me a while back too. Not to sound like a broken record since everyone has done a great job explaining it, but I found this website pretty helpful in explaining it in a way I could understand.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 13:40:17

Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to fevictor)

p.s. Welcome Becko.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 13:41:39

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to fevictor)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 20:14:07

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to fevictor)

Tienes un traduccion por todas las respuestas shroomy ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2005 21:57:57

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to fevictor)

Lionel,

Completamente de acuerdo...esta un poco canijo tratar de traducir todo de español al ingles.

Pero bueno, saludos a todos desde Costa Rica!

Pura Vida

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 14 2005 0:27:37

Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to fevictor)

Bump....I don't know why I have such a mental block when it comes to "por medio/arriba/etc"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2007 15:02:36

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to Francisco) 1 votes

You can play an open soleá por bulerias "por medio" using bulerias-style melodies/falsetas or on the 5th fret "por arriba" using soleá-style melodies/falsetas. Even though in the same key your melodic possibilities are different, that's why it's important to differentiate on which string your tonic is.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2007 15:20:12

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM
Yeah, its quite simple.....por arriba is E (whatever mode) and por medio is A.

This confused me for ages too. It comes from musicians who don't know music theory.
When you play E you are fretting the bottom strings of the guitar but because those strings are nearer you head than your feet when the guitar is in your hands, the chord is por arriba (up) A is in the middle of the fretboard and D is on the bottom (which are really the top strings) por abajo (por'bajo). It is always confusing to explain to students that the top strings are on the bottom and the bottom strings are at the top.

The capo traditionally allows guitarists to change key to the voice of the singer without having to transpose all the falsettas in different keys...F#, G, G# etc. which keyboard players have to do for example. Thats why you sometimes get solea with capo on 8th fret. Nowadays good players can play in several keys but even today, most just know 2 and slide the capo around.

JohnOs example is good. A solea por arriba, capo 5 sounds different to solea por buleria, por medio, no capo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2007 23:24:42

Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to fevictor)

So how do they usually play the chords in the key of A if they call it "por medio"? When I'm playing in A, I've always seen the chords (Dm/C/Bb/A right? iv-III-II-I?) in open positions...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2007 3:11:35

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to fevictor)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2007 4:27:24

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to Adam)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ramparts

So how do they usually play the chords in the key of A if they call it "por medio"? When I'm playing in A, I've always seen the chords (Dm/C/Bb/A right? iv-III-II-I?) in open positions...

Exactly right!! Thats how they are usually played but of course you can play them anywhere.

quote:

Huh???
The Gitanos know music theory???

Well some do, at least some chord theory and today young players know a lot more about music generally. I think it goes back to older days when the singers just sang and didnt need to understand keys and modulations etc. They just knew the sound of sigurilla por medio or solea por arriba. Most still do.
I learned music at school and got used to E major and A major so it took me a while to see why they were called medio y arriba in Spain.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2007 11:22:55

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Pimientito)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2007 11:29:31

Posts: 3
Joined: Apr. 16 2015

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to Pimientito)

Pimientito wrote:

quote:

I learned music at school and got used to E major and A major so it took me a while to see why they were called medio y arriba in Spain.

I think he meant to say the opposite:

E (tonic) = "por arriba"
A (tonic) = "por medio"

Sorry if I misinterpreted you. Just assuming you know flamenco terminology, at least, better than I.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2015 7:12:09

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to gk)

wow, super old necro post lol!

Here is some basics. Solfegio is used not letter notes, so a solfegio note will inform the KEY you are in for the singer, and a number will be the capo position. the other terms "por arriba por medio por levante por minera por granaina por rondeña etc, refer to PHRYGIAN keys. It is helpful to know this in advance of playing sevillanas or bulerias etc.

Examples:
Key of E major = Mi
Key of E minor = Mi menor
Key of E phrygian= por Arriba

Key of A major = La
Key of A minor= La menor
Key of A phrygian = por medio

one may note when playing, you use the same chords in "La menor" as you do in "por Arriba"....but you need to distinguish the two as KEY CENTERS.

Hope that helps.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2015 15:40:38

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Por medio, Por arriba, Por dios !!! (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

wow, super old necro post lol!

Here is some basics. Solfegio is used not letter notes, so a solfegio note will inform the KEY you are in for the singer, and a number will be the capo position. the other terms "por arriba por medio por levante por minera por granaina por rondeña etc, refer to PHRYGIAN keys. It is helpful to know this in advance of playing sevillanas or bulerias etc.

Examples:
Key of E major = Mi
Key of E minor = Mi menor
Key of E phrygian= por Arriba

Key of A major = La
Key of A minor= La menor
Key of A phrygian = por medio

one may note when playing, you use the same chords in "La menor" as you do in "por Arriba"....but you need to distinguish the two as KEY CENTERS.

Hope that helps.

So you are saying it is unconventional to hear "por ariba" and "por medio" when talking about guajiras or alegrias?

Just giving the key doesn't give any info about capo position / chord shapes. So what are the gitano terms for the following three common chord positions for alegrias?
E - B7
A - E7
C - G7
I'd have thought "por ariba", "por medio" and "por abajo" could describe the chord positions / shapes here despite the fact we're in major and not phrygian. i.e. you could play in E major with a capo at the 7th and say "E major por medio" to describe that.

In Guadeloupe the locals call bananas "figs" - who am I to tell them they are wrong?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2015 17:25:33