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RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- what goes in between them?   You are logged in as Guest
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guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2969
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to athrane77

Hi Jof.

I enjoyed Solea's post because I felt it was light hearted and self deprecating.

Actually I really enjoyed his post. I don't think he is taking himself too seriously and I honestly don't think that he wants you to either.

And you know I am fond of you.

Irony doesn't translate from one person to another so easily, even when they are both speaking in their first language, as I know only too well.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2014 22:53:35
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1744
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to athrane77

quote:

ORIGINAL: jof

Ok the question of this thread was something about soleá falsetas.
Why this kind of indoctrination?
Just to throw his weight about?


I only want indoctrinations from gitanos, not from some guy in a flamenco foro.


I didn't feel it like indoctrinating at all and found his post very amuzing. It might very well be "the best post ever" as guitarbuddha praised it to be.

His reply on your first reaction was pretty funny/brilliant as well and far from the person you seem to held him for. I'm very grateful to have him on this foro and i'm highly looking forwards to his future posts.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2014 23:14:03
 
solea1

 

Posts: 12
Joined: Apr. 27 2014
 

RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to athrane77

Good point, jof. I picked up on the whole idea of starting out on guitar, and a question about the validity of the solo flamenco guitar, which wasn't the question. I don't know the protocol, and probably should've changed the topic line.

I also like your statement-as-two-questions that I'm here to indoctrinate people and throw my weight around. Well, sorta...

For example: Like you, I prefer my indoctrinations from gitanos. I got my first dose from the then-80-year-old singer Juan Talega (born in 1887), who told me stories about his father and his grandfather as if it were yesterday.

(It was like hearing the voice of God, explaining the Creation -- albeit to a young idiot who barely understood Aramaic or whatever God speaks.)

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Brook Zern
www.flamencoexperience.com
www.flamencoexperience.com/blog
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2014 23:19:44
 
solea1

 

Posts: 12
Joined: Apr. 27 2014
 

RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to Ricardo

Hi, Ricardo -- thanks for your response, and the constant stream of good advice and experience you share with everyone in this foro.

I don't understand jazz, but I assumed that the giants could go out onto the Brooklyn Bridge at midnight and blow great new horn music that the world had never heard before and in fact would never hear at all. (Was it Coltrane who allegedly did that?)

I got that impression partly from the guitarist who tried to explain Paco's really advanced music in the late eighties. He had learned his first Paco stuff in Russia. He said it was really hard to find a recording, but he finally got one, so he learned it and...

"Wait a minute," I said. "I've had all his recordings for years, and still don't understand the new stuff at all."

He said, "Well, I was a jazz guitarist, and next to jazz, everything else is baby talk."

I loved that whole idea, and figured those jazz guys didn't need any shortcuts or bags of tricks. It's disillusioning but comforting to learn that they are not "unconfoundable" (to mistranslate a Spanish notion.)

Ricardo, you are absolutely right that one can take reasonable exception to every point I make. Sometimes I even do it to myself. I love all the arguments, and consider them part of the pleasure of flamenco.

(In Spain, I'm often called a racist for a bias toward Gypsy artists and styles, and a Taliban for doubting that fresh flamenco is better than the stale stuff I understand.)

_____________________________

Brook Zern
www.flamencoexperience.com
www.flamencoexperience.com/blog
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 10 2014 23:26:46
 
athrane77

 

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
 

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Aug. 26 2015 11:00:45
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 11 2014 11:26:52
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to solea1

quote:

I don't understand jazz, but I assumed that the giants could go out onto the Brooklyn Bridge at midnight and blow great new horn music that the world had never heard before and in fact would never hear at all. (Was it Coltrane who allegedly did that?)


I think that was Sonny Rollins.

I don't know much about jazz, and only started listening to it after getting seriously hooked on flamenco.
People kept on with this "Paco de Lucia... jazz", "modern flamenco... jazz" talk so I thought I'd better check out some jazz.
But it doesn't sound anything like flamenco, modern or otherwise, to me.
I can't see the connection. Except I can sort of see the connection, in the sense that Ramon Montoya supposedly took from classical guitar, but I don't think his music sounded anything like classical guitar.
I don't think "Montiño" or "La Tumbona" or "La Barrosa" or "Gloria al Niño Ricardo" or "La Canada" or "Rio de la Miel" or "El Chorruelo" sound anything like any of the jazz I've ever heard.
So Paco stole some ideas from jazz? If that's so, he flamenco-fied them so well they just sound like flamenco to me

[and btw I learned some tarantas from Sabicas a while back with a G7flat5 chord shape I managed to find later in a book of jazz chord shapes for guitar, so it seems stealing from jazz is nothing new]

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 11 2014 22:28:02
 
solea1

 

Posts: 12
Joined: Apr. 27 2014
 

RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to athrane77

Thanks, Jof.

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Brook Zern
www.flamencoexperience.com
www.flamencoexperience.com/blog
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2014 1:35:28
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11080
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to mark indigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

quote:

I don't understand jazz, but I assumed that the giants could go out onto the Brooklyn Bridge at midnight and blow great new horn music that the world had never heard before and in fact would never hear at all. (Was it Coltrane who allegedly did that?)


I think that was Sonny Rollins.

I don't know much about jazz, and only started listening to it after getting seriously hooked on flamenco.
People kept on with this "Paco de Lucia... jazz", "modern flamenco... jazz" talk so I thought I'd better check out some jazz.
But it doesn't sound anything like flamenco, modern or otherwise, to me.
I can't see the connection. Except I can sort of see the connection, in the sense that Ramon Montoya supposedly took from classical guitar, but I don't think his music sounded anything like classical guitar.
I don't think "Montiño" or "La Tumbona" or "La Barrosa" or "Gloria al Niño Ricardo" or "La Canada" or "Rio de la Miel" or "El Chorruelo" sound anything like any of the jazz I've ever heard.
So Paco stole some ideas from jazz? If that's so, he flamenco-fied them so well they just sound like flamenco to me

[and btw I learned some tarantas from Sabicas a while back with a G7flat5 chord shape I managed to find later in a book of jazz chord shapes for guitar, so it seems stealing from jazz is nothing new]


I do know some stuff about jazz. I studied it both before and after getting seriously involved with flamenco. And I concur with your opinion about modern flamenco. I will admit that the generalization about jazz influence centers around "chords" more than anything else, and is perpetuated by flamencos themselves sometimes. (they often are quite proud to think they have discovered some new jazz chord here or there). Yet as we look at specifics there is almost nothing there. For example, Paco "learned" jazz harmony from Mclaughlin...yet when they play TOGETHER, Paco uses traditional flamenco voicings in clear contrast to Mclaughlins way to play the same progressions. Next is the scale generaliztions. Same deal.

I will say Paco used a couple devices I assume he learned....namely the ii-V-i to modulate, and some melodic minor modes but in very sparse instances. I think the aficionados that "don't like jazz-flamenco" are more put off by the use of dynamics of the rhythm guitar....not unlike the typical "stay off the keyboard or bass players toes" style comping which can have a lot of rhythmic holes. So compas evolution more than any new "jazzy" chords or scales.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2014 13:46:43
 
Wheater

 

Posts: 21
Joined: Jun. 10 2011
 

RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to guitarbuddha

To return to the original basis of the question, what is played between falsetas? I am wondering this myself as I am just starting out learning flamenco. Any resources you all have for a place to explain this and the basic theory of flamenco would be extremely helpful.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2014 16:08:51

Morante

 

Posts: 1409
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to Wheater

quote:

To return to the original basis of the question, what is played between falsetas?


If you play the traditional chord sequence to accompany the cante, for example, the soleá de Alcala, it will fill spaces well and occupy 4 compases at least. You can always decorate the chords with arpegios or typical runups from G to C etc.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2014 16:19:32
 
ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to guitarbuddha

I like this guy's instructional videos - here's something for beginners:



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Ryan
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2014 16:33:05
 
solea1

 

Posts: 12
Joined: Apr. 27 2014
 

RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to ralexander

Thanks for the tip, Ryan. In the seventies, we paid through the nose and sweated blood for months trying to unravel the Paco falsetas that are casually revealed on those free AtrafanaSchool videos and so many other sites. (On the plus side, we would forever treasure every single hard-earned note. When we finally got whole toques in accurate tablature, it was confusing -- it felt like cheating.)

_____________________________

Brook Zern
www.flamencoexperience.com
www.flamencoexperience.com/blog
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2014 4:43:40
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to Wheater

quote:

To return to the original basis of the question, what is played between falsetas?
after your falseta, play the llamada for the singer and accompany his/her letra

joke (but with a kinda serious point too)

if there's no singer, play the compás on some chords (like in the vid above), play a llamada and then another falseta



quote:

I only do a lesson every week or so due to my school schedule, so I am learning a lot on my own time as well. I use my lessons more for making sure I'm using the right technique.
ask your teacher for some compás variations.

or you could get Oscar Herrero Paso A Paso Volume 4. It is pretty much all compás variations por Soleá

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2014 13:19:16
 
ralexander

Posts: 797
Joined: Jun. 1 2010
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: I'm learning Solea falsetas- wha... (in reply to solea1

quote:

Thanks for the tip, Ryan. In the seventies, we paid through the nose and sweated blood for months trying to unravel the Paco falsetas that are casually revealed on those free AtrafanaSchool videos and so many other sites. (On the plus side, we would forever treasure every single hard-earned note. When we finally got whole toques in accurate tablature, it was confusing -- it felt like cheating.)


Hi Brook - no doubt us younger generation guitarists (for context, I am just 34 - ok, not THAT young anymore!) have it easier than ever when it comes to access to quality instructional material. I'm very grateful for such access and don't take it for granted. The gentleman running the Atrafana site/school has obviously devoted a truckload of hard hours working out those falsetas/pieces and it's very gracious of him to offer so many free videos. He is trying to stir up business for his teaching lessons, and you can't blame him for using this stuff to attract potential students.

Anyway, Paco is great but truth be told I'd rather play like Melchor

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Ryan
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2014 15:07:26
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