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Ruphus

Posts: 3751
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to JuanDaBomb

Incredible!

A flamenco album as best seller. And that in a country whichs largest newspaper is a soccer journal.

I hadn´t thought people in Spain to be taking that much notice of Paco´s passing, lesser even of his last production.
Really amazing; and I like these news mucho!

Ruphus

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2014 10:38:35

Morante

 

Posts: 1409
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

A flamenco album as best seller. And that in a country whichs largest newspaper is a soccer journal.


Exactly The Spanish have an appreciation of popular music por el culo. If this album has reached No 1, son malas noticias
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2014 15:46:17
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3751
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ruphus

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2014 15:48:51
 
edguerin

Posts: 1518
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ruphus

I've just listened to Cancion Andaluza for the umpteenth time (giving it a chance...), and although this might be considered blasphemous by some, I wouldn't have been surprised to hear this music in the elevator at Corte Ingles.
Not a masterpiece by any means.

_____________________________

Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2014 9:57:28
 
Shroomy726

Posts: 1329
Joined: Jun. 5 2005
From: Argentina (living in U.S.)

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to edguerin

I understand if someone doesn't like it and say so, but to say "not a masterpiece by any means" is going a bit too far. Just because that's your taste it doesn't mean it isn't a masterpiece. There are plenty of "means" to categorize this as a masterpiece. I think there is a lot of great stuff in that album. For a modern flamenco representation of the Andalusian Copla, I think it's genius.

_____________________________

Gracias Paco por la música que nos diste. Me cambiaste la vida y nunca lo olvidaré. Que en paz descanses.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2014 22:12:19
 
sissoko

 

Posts: 24
Joined: Apr. 12 2015
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ruphus

Of course the album fits in nicely for the spanish culture department (nostalgia, big sales, big exploitation of the national genius - a metreo station in madrid is now called paco de lucia).

But I consider it one of Paco's best album. I can't stop listening to it, and it makes me cry each time.
Some people here said it was not flamenco at all or it was easy listening music for elevators. Well, I don't know what kind of personal ressentment you hold against paco but I think it's totally stupid to say such sings. Remember who you are speaking of, and pay respect when it's due. This is childish.

This is what the old genius left us, free from competition, free from any need to prove anything, just an act of love for music and for the andalucian culture. Paco is payo, yes he is. These were certainly songs his mother loved to sing, and we can hear reminiscences of fado in some tracks. Paco as finally stopped feeling inferior to these jazz rock musicians. He has taken the best, and left the rest, and has nothing to prove anymore. He kindly refuses to sit on the chair of the avant-guarde hipster musician to humbly sit on the chair of any Musician.

The opening "Maria de la O" is the sweetest thing I ever heard. For Romance de Valentia between 2'50 and 3'10 I often burst out crying. Te he de querer mientras viva and zambra gitana, I love enrique and estrella morente so much it is a pleasure to have them together,, although I don't like the way the voices were mixed. RIP Enrique, great, great singer. Quiroga por Bulerias is simlply the master's last buleria, and this is the furthest he went : puremusicality. A buleria opened to the whole world. And he opens even more for senorita, which is the one i prefer and i play in loop. All I can say is thank you. I have no words for this song. Thank you, maestro. I am still listening and crying to it. This is pure generosity. Hear the "saudade" of the intro. Hear the cheering afro-cuban rythm and singing. The original singing of these very sad lyrics were way too dramatic

It gives these lyrics much more strength to be sung by Oscar D'Leon, much more subtleness. Hear the solo, hear the whole idea of humility that it gives, and freedom, he plays around the rythm, with a very wide dynamic. And the salsa wins in the end. Dancing, singing along, having sex, forgetting borders, this is what he gives us in the end - but he has to conclude it all with a brillant remate. Because it is still flamenco.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 14:37:42
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3040
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to sissoko

quote:

But I consider it one of Paco's best album. I can't stop listening to it, and it makes me cry each time.
Some people here said it was not flamenco at all or it was easy listening music for elevators. Well, I don't know what kind of personal ressentment you hold against paco but I think it's totally stupid to say such sings. Remember who you are speaking of, and pay respect when it's due. This is childish.


You say there are fellow users here who "hold resentment" against Paco and you think that it is "totally stupid".

I don't consider myself a Paco fan, I would even dare to say that given the extension of his discography, I don't care much for his music and the vast majority just bores me. Having said that I think you have to be crazy to post all that while stating Cancion Andaluza as being your favorite.


It's like being a huge Metallica fan with St. Anger as your favorite album and telling all the old school fans that they are stupid for not liking it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 14:54:26

Morante

 

Posts: 1409
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ruphus

Canción Andaluza de verdad.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 15:23:05
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11268
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Sr. Martins

Rui, you ARE stupid for not liking it...and even MORE stupid for being bored by Paco in general. For shame man for shame.

To sissoko, Parrita sings on the Zambra, not Enrique Morente.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 17:39:43
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3040
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Rui, you ARE stupid for not liking it...and even MORE stupid for being bored by Paco in general. For shame man for shame.


I enjoy stuff like Cepa Andaluza (the video version is better, has a different falseta that makes all the difference to me), Yo Solo quiero Caminar, Almoraima.... and Cositas Buenas as an album. I feel sleepy if I listen to any Paco album (except the early stuff but that's different...and CB).

There has to be at least one other person here at the foro that doesn't care much for Paco, maybe he is afraid to tell...


But hey, my stupidity wasn't the point I was trying to illustrate this time.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 17:59:50
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1781
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Sr. Martins

I'll offer you a little support Rui, although I disagree on much with you. The way I see things is Paco was in constant need of exploring new avenues. Many of those avenues revealed gold, gems, diamonds and timeless classics that will enter the history books with the music of Bach and Mozart. Some of those avenues gave him chart topping hits requiring nothing more than flashy picado and repetive rumba chord progressions. Some of those avenues resulted in failures - particularly some of the early guitar duet stuff and all those extended harmonica and bass solo stuff on his final tour (but he was old and it got him though the gig when things weren't going so well so you can understand). In general, if there was an element of flamenco then he took it to new levels and you have to love it (you mean there are no tracks on Lucia that move you? Perhaps Ricardo was right). Where he fails for me is where he strayed too far from flamenco ~ BUT had he not taken these avenues he could never have later done what he did on discs like Sirroco or Lucia.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 21:56:10
 
Aretium

Posts: 277
Joined: Oct. 23 2012
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ruphus

For me, there is no flamenco artist outside of Paco in terms of compositions and the guitar. Whatever I listen to is nice, but rarely would I listen to it again. Maybe I am just as "stupid" as Rui.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 22:44:58
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3040
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ruphus

I don't know how my taste and preferences in music escalated into a "right or wrong" situation.

Open mindedness and acceptance has never been the flag of the foro but lately it went from bad to worse.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 22:57:49
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1781
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Sr. Martins

It's stuff like Buena Buena Beuna King Kong that for me was a step too far. Admit guys, Paco was dab hand at making music that would appeal to a much wider audience. Luckily it wasn't all like that.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 23:02:39
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ruphus

I don't think I would say I dislike anything but I would say I definitely have a big preference for earlier Paco, Fuente and before. After that it's not that I dislike it, but it doesn't get nearly as much iPod time.....

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 23:13:59
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3040
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Dudnote

I don't question his historical relevance and influence on other players but that's not enough reason for me to be all excited while listening through a whole album, specially because there's a huge part of "choppy" musical sentences (sometimes it feels like unrelated words) in his music. Tomatito suffers a lot from that too, although his "legendary bulerias" are the reason I joined the foro and threw away the pick immediately.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 23:16:47
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3040
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Leñador

quote:

After that it's not that I dislike it, but it doesn't get nearly as much iPod time.....


My feelings exactly, it gets too much "skip to next track" so it wouldn't be reasonable to call myself a fan. At home the last time I've tried was with "La Busqueda"... it's a compilation and I couldn't stand it either and had to change it to Antonio Munoz just to get pumped again.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 23:19:30
 
sissoko

 

Posts: 24
Joined: Apr. 12 2015
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ruphus

I am sorry because I was the first to use the word "stupid" and beacuse I thought it was Enrique Morente on Zambra (So I am the one that's stupid here)

But please don't talk about Metallica when we're sepaking of Paco de Lucia... and I still think it's ONE of his best albums, for the reasons I explained, and also because some of his albums are uneven, but this one is really consistent. It's popular but not flashy, it's subtle, humble, very delicate.

The records I prefer along this one are Siroco, Almoraima and the live one summer night. I dont like the trio at all altough I love most of Castro Marin and most of everything he has made after that. I don't know so much about flamenco but for example I love Paco Cepero, because he keeps stuff simple and musical, he never shows off, he's generous. I respect Antonio Muñoz a lot but he tries to be Paco and Vicente and he's just Antonio.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 23:37:33
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3040
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to sissoko

The only "stupid" thing I see here is your inability to accept the reasons why people aren't raving about Cancion Andaluza. It's undoubtedly VERY FAR from being representative of Paco's career.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 23:53:56
 
Shroomy726

Posts: 1329
Joined: Jun. 5 2005
From: Argentina (living in U.S.)

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ruphus

Weird...

It is not "stupid" that you would dislike or not appreciate Paco, but it is "weird". Flamenco musicians and guitarists that are really into flamenco and have been all of their lives, and that have worked their whole existence playing/composing flamenco and know the art to its core and very intimately, are almost unanimously IN LOVE with Paco's music. I share this same feeling. Very few music can I listen for THOUSANDS of times and still get touched or LEARN something musical from it.

Like Manolo Sanlucar has said before:

"Paco es para mí, una estrella. La definición de estrella... Es decir, a aquellos que no entienden el flamenco: les encanta... Y a los que sabemos, a los entendidos: nos vuelve locos."

I feel that it's "weird" that there are flamenco guitarists that don't "get" his music and/or are not enthralled by it. The best flamenco guitarists in the world are obsessed with Paco. So am I. I may not share their musical/technical talent, but I certainly share that passion. Few music has touched me so deeply as his. The only reason that I would call someone "stupid" for not appreciating Paco's music is if they are judging a book by its cover. Open that book and read it and give it a chance. And if you think his music is marketable and filled with long picado runs, you obviously haven't listened to his music enough.

It's like saying that you like Classical music but you don't like Bach or Mozart... Ok... That's weird as well, isn't it?

_____________________________

Gracias Paco por la música que nos diste. Me cambiaste la vida y nunca lo olvidaré. Que en paz descanses.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 20 2015 23:55:03
 
sissoko

 

Posts: 24
Joined: Apr. 12 2015
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

The only "stupid" thing I see here is your inability to accept the reasons why people aren't raving about Cancion Andaluza. It's undoubtedly VERY FAR from being representative of Paco's career.


Man you got it wrong :
- I don't give a damn if people do or do not rave about this album. I just say how I feel about it on a public forum
- I never said it was representative of his career, it's just perfect as a last album.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 21 2015 0:09:09
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3040
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to sissoko

quote:

Man you got it wrong :
- I don't give a damn if people do or do not rave about this album. I just say how I feel about it on a public forum
- I never said it was representative of his career, it's just perfect as a last album.


- Well.. you "gave a damn", that's exactly why we've been discussing "stupidity"

- I didn't say that you've said it.. relax man, it's all good. Just accept things as they are and keep enjoying the album, that's what really matter after all.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 21 2015 0:18:18
 
sissoko

 

Posts: 24
Joined: Apr. 12 2015
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ruphus

please stop...
I said the word "stupid" because I was shocked about the "elevator music" stuff.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 21 2015 0:41:44
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11268
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Shroomy726

quote:

I feel that it's "weird" that there are flamenco guitarists that don't "get" his music and/or are not enthralled by it.


this is a false conclusion. While there may be plenty of aficionados, enthusiasts, and even the occasional dancer or singer pro that really don't like Paco's music or what he is about...but functioning flamenco players? Zero that feel that way.

So fans of flamenco guitar surely might appreciate more other players and it is normal. There have been so many times some modern post paco generation guy that did something really "unique" and beautiful...well later I hear the same idea subtly embedded in a Paco recording that I heard thousands of times but missed it...and only because the new guy exploited the idea that it grabbed me. Pretty much every note the guy played was gold, yes even trio stuff, buana buana king kong, Bryan Adams love song, etc etc....and I have made a conscious effort to listen closer to all of my "ipod skip over tracks" since his death..and Have discovered tons of new inspiring gems.

I do get annoyed when folks come out and go on and on about shooting down another person's favorite album or artist...but I always take away something positive. From this little round I realize I need to give a bit more time to St. Anger and Antonio Muñoz.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 21 2015 0:59:04
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3040
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to sissoko

quote:

I said the word "stupid" because I was shocked about the "elevator music" stuff.


That was understood, the point is that you cared about what others felt about something that you love.

quote:

From this little round I realize I need to give a bit more time to St. Anger and Antonio Muñoz.


St. Anger was my guilty pleasure some years ago, it's pretty "unique" and good for the beach.

Antonio's Azafran sounds pretty good production wise, has it's rawness and isn't soapy. That alone is enough to grab my attention in modern albums but the music is also good.

I mostly just listen to old albums with cante but as far as modern solo guitar, Sirimusa and Orate are two of my favorites... but I also love Myrddin's stuff so Iam far from being a purist.


Iam just a guy who happens to enjoy listening to flamenco and mangling it on the guitar so I openly accept the notion that right now I might not be able to grasp Paco's stuff because of my own "blindness" to it. It just hasn't synched to my brainwave yet.


Vicente's seagulls and all those articulations used to make me sick (seasick in this case ) but not anymore, I even went to see him live.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 21 2015 1:20:27
 
Shroomy726

Posts: 1329
Joined: Jun. 5 2005
From: Argentina (living in U.S.)

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

I feel that it's "weird" that there are flamenco guitarists that don't "get" his music and/or are not enthralled by it.


this is a false conclusion. While there may be plenty of aficionados, enthusiasts, and even the occasional dancer or singer pro that really don't like Paco's music or what he is about...but functioning flamenco players? Zero that feel that way.

So fans of flamenco guitar surely might appreciate more other players and it is normal. There have been so many times some modern post paco generation guy that did something really "unique" and beautiful...well later I hear the same idea subtly embedded in a Paco recording that I heard thousands of times but missed it...and only because the new guy exploited the idea that it grabbed me.


I'm confused by what you wrote. It seems you agree with my conclusion if zero people feel that way? Please clarify.

Especially considering that if those fans of flamenco guitar like the new "spin" that the new guy did, and it comes from a Paco recording, then they can also grow to appreciate the original idea.

I really don't care what people like. I've said it many times before... Tastes are tastes. But have respect for a towering figure of the art.

I'll end by saying this. I didn't like Paco so much when I was younger. I was really into Sabicas, Ramon Montoya, Nino Ricardo, etc. (and still am although not nearly as much). I grew out of that. I think the appreciation for the influences that Paco had made me appreciate his music even more. It opened the flood gates to a whole new world.

_____________________________

Gracias Paco por la música que nos diste. Me cambiaste la vida y nunca lo olvidaré. Que en paz descanses.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 21 2015 2:36:01
 
bicharraco

 

Posts: 25
Joined: Mar. 19 2015
 

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to Ruphus

¿Pero como os va a gustar este disco si no tenéis ni puta idea de lo que es la canción andaluza ni os habéis criado expuestos a ella?

Os falta mucha informan cultural básica. Para empezar, si quieres paladearlo de veras, tienes que conocer las coplas originales que versiona, cuando aquí se tratan las diferentes canciones como si fueran composiciones originales de Paco.

No es estupidez, es ignorancia!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 21 2015 7:38:49
 
koenie17

Posts: 438
Joined: Feb. 25 2011
From: España

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to bicharraco

This maybe a big surprise but nowadays everyone all over the world can listen to almost every song that exists
on the internet! So I really dont know why you say that we have no clue about la copla o cancion Andaluza!!
Also saying that the people on this foro are lacking education in culture is a load of BS,
Flamenco isnt stricktly Spanish anymore as many people froma all over the world now practice this artform
Everyone here on the foro higly respects flamenco in all its aspects and where its coming from.
So if you think people over here dont have a clue... why dont you educate us a littlebit on the Spanish culture??
Instead of complaining about how stupid and ignorant everyone is!!

I personally think that Pacos last work is great, allthough im not a big copla fan.
This is the last gift Paco had left us! Let us please respect his work even if you dont like it as much!
Paco deserves it!!!

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 21 2015 10:05:57
 
Shroomy726

Posts: 1329
Joined: Jun. 5 2005
From: Argentina (living in U.S.)

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to bicharraco



Here we go again...

_____________________________

Gracias Paco por la música que nos diste. Me cambiaste la vida y nunca lo olvidaré. Que en paz descanses.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 21 2015 11:21:37
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2851
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Listen to Cancion Andaluza (in reply to bicharraco

quote:

¿Pero como os va a gustar este disco si no tenéis ni puta idea de lo que es la canción andaluza ni os habéis criado expuestos a ella? Os falta mucha informan cultural básica. Para empezar, si quieres paladearlo de veras, tienes que conocer las coplas originales que versiona, cuando aquí se tratan las diferentes canciones como si fueran composiciones originales de Paco. No es estupidez, es ignorancia!!!


When our poster calls others on this Foro "Stupid" and "ignorant" and lacking in "basic culture" I am reminded of a phenomenon in psychology known as "projection." Those who engage in this phenomenon project onto others those inadequacies, lack of knowledge, and lack of ability they recognize in themselves but cannot bring themselves to admit. It usually is a sign of deep insecurity.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 21 2015 11:24:21
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