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RE: Francisco Navarro Student or Factory Flamenco?
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estebanana
Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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 RE: Francisco Navarro Student or Fac... (in reply to Ruphus)
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quote:
I am longing for the most ordinary of gems, from hard-cured sausages and cheese over sauces and dressings of all kinds to the refinement of procedures and spicings. Galaxies away from Italian or Fench opulence of resourceful combinations and flavours.
Just Italian basil!
I had seeds sent over and grow some ( before the dogs occupiied the little garden). The local specimen is a whole other thing, rather ressembling some flavourless saur plant.
Simply italian basil with mozarella, tomatos and olive oil! What a treat! >drool!<
Mozarella and olive oil can actually be found; ... for the price of truffle.
I understand exactly. While I can't complain about Japanese food, it has surprised me that there is only limited rage of flavors that get worked a reworked. The best part is the seafood, which in my area is quite sensational. But the everyday stuff, especially in winter, gets 'samey'. There are vegetables in a pot and then vegetables on a pot and for some variation on the theme vegetables in a pot. In those months I want to make Italian sausage sandwiches with hot mustard and sharp cheddar on sourdough bread. Or go to eat tacos while standing at the counter telling the guy to keep piling on the cilantro, chile verde pork and enough jalapenos to kill the average Japanese eater.
Then I get all pissed off and cranky and am only saved by knowing that for 6 dollars US I can get sashimi bento for lunch that would be equivalent to a $40.00 lunch in San Crabsdisco, if only in a million years they could serve the same quality fish in SF and you did not have to sit next to a obnoxious boor who works at Google.
For $35.00 per person you can have a prix fixe dinner at a seafood izakaya that come little by little in 11 courses, each course has from one to three small plates or bowls.
I calculated one night what each course would cost in SF, should they even be able to get the same foods to serve. It was upwards of $200 per person easy. This is funny place too, because I can't read the menu and it has no pictures, because there are no gaijin tourists ever coming here. In one year I have never seen a single non Japanese person in this town except myself and my friend Chris the ceramics guy.
So this izakaya is the saving grace for me, you put yourself in their hands and they deliver it to the table. The first time I went there they asked the family if I could eat Japanese food, they laughed and said yes. It's deep country here so the food is more regional than what you find in big cities in the US. There a very regional ways of cooking here that despite the modern speed of modern travel and national news casts have stayed the same. In small cities like this can can smell the regional cooking style as you walk down the narrow streets at 5 o'clock.
But then what I really miss are the libraries at Mills College and UC Berkeley. There's not an international news stand within 300 miles and only three native English speakers in this whole area and I only want to talk to one of them. Well two of them if I could myself.
There is a pineapple upside down cake that sells in the local super market, when I cant stand it any longer I go get one and eat it in the shop in secret. There are a few baked items they have worked out really well, but they seem to be of Portugese lineage, but also not pastel de nato.
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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Apr. 20 2014 23:36:14
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estebanana
Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Francisco Navarro Student or Fac... (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
While I think the PDM example is helpful to builders and players a like as a sort of "study" or experiment....let me reiterate that, despite Tom's insistence that it was unique example, I feel there to be a general issue about sound and response here and there are in fact players with DIFFERENT TASTES. So you are talking about non reverse-able procedures (I assume as wood is removed not added) to do this fine tuning thing, so there is the ethical issue. Label or no label, the guitar is "improved" or "ruined" based on differing points of view. I think it is a dangerous route for someone to take (modifying guitars unless they are cheap mass production instruments) personally. Sort of like plastic surgery or tattoos etc. Better we all simply learn what we really WANT (as players) and how to make it happen (builders).
Ricardo
The thing I would not want to hear about is if this grew to a level where players incorporate the possibility of sound modification by fine tuning into buying a guitar. As if they try different guitars but don't find The Grail, but a guitar close to it. Then say Ok I can have it fine tuned to perfection...That is silly, just keep looking for the right guitar.
However, remember there was a trend in the steel string world to shave the braces on Martin guitars to make them more responsive. This turns out to have enhanced a few guitars, but it also killed hundreds of guitars that eventually folded up and had to have neck resets sooner and top braces replaced.
In the steel string world when people shaved braces they were, at least in the beginning, generally not guided by any type of systematic tuning method that was widely known. There were a few guys who specialized in shaving braces who were actually dealers and repairmen, who did not build guitars themselves. ( I could name names, but not in public ) Then following the lead of these self styled Martin brace shavers many guitar owners would take matters in their own hands and try to shave the braces and shave out sections of bridge plates.
There was never any real method or school of thought behind this modification work other than trial and error to lighten the braces and make them slightly more flexible. Usually they were trying to enhance the basses. Steel string guitar makers just took a lesson from this and began building lighter guitars, which was one direction steel string building was headed anyway, and a turned to making original models inspired by earlier Martin guitars
But they are not just going willy nilly into vintage guitars and shaving braces these days; the lessons of the brace shaving experience showed it was better to construct lighter more sensitive guitars to the edges of structural integrity than to wholesale retune guitars. And many SS makers today have methods for fine tuning, but they are more integrated with the complete method that that builder uses and usually carefully guided by some type of instrumentation that tells them where to take a little here or a little there.
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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Apr. 21 2014 0:14:07
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Tom Blackshear
Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
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RE: Francisco Navarro Student or Fac... (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear
quote:
I think it is a dangerous route for someone to take (modifying guitars unless they are cheap mass production instruments) personally. Sort of like plastic surgery or tattoos etc. Better we all simply learn what we really WANT (as players) and how to make it happen (builders).
Ricardo, as I implied before, it's better not to do this to other builders' guitars, as it displays a certain amount of misinformation about the instruments; even if they may turn out better.
And my post was published with the idea that although it can be done, I don't advise fine tuning another builder's guitars as a perennial pathway to excellence.
I know you did, but the guy I replied to was trying to say you should do this a lot as a business. We have been over it in the past and was just addressing the issue since nobody else did yet (in THIS thread, and dont' feel like searching the old topics),
Thanks for clarifying it. The whole point of my sharing this technique with Manuel Adalid is that he can employ it with his current builds so that I don't have to. I think the highest reality of each guitar should be its own creation by the hand of its own builder.
But according to factory methods, hopefully be it's own identity with quality and purpose.
I'm looking forward to seeing Manuel's latest build, Thursday-Friday of this week April 24-25, 2014
And if it turns out good, then I have done my job.
But it's still up in the air about the price, which we might be able to work out at the meeting, this week.
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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
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Date Apr. 22 2014 17:17:45
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Ricardo
Posts: 14234
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Francisco Navarro Student or Fac... (in reply to SephardRick)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SephardRick
quote:
Well, I played several of his guitars, don't know him except via this chat, and I personally feel he deserves more respect than it looks like he gets on here
Ricardo,
What did think about Tom Blackshear's guitars that you played?
I played a classical, a reyes copy flamenco, and that PDM he modified .... I think something else but can't remember where or what. He knows what he is doing. I have to admit the reyes is not sounding or playing like the actual reyes guitars I have played, but, on it's own it was a high caliber instrument, and, considering it was much cheaper than a reyes (at the time) I would say a good value. He informed me privately that the instrument I had tried was not the best one of the all the copies he produced, but it's my only reference to go on....and this stuff, as we all know, comes down to taste anyway.
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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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Date Apr. 23 2014 14:19:37
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Tom Blackshear
Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
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RE: Francisco Navarro Student or Fac... (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
He informed me privately that the instrument I had tried was not the best one of the all the copies he produced, but it's my only reference to go on....and this stuff, as we all know, comes down to taste anyway.
Actually it was not the worst but not the best:-) I made 4 copies as best I could to demonstrate the GAL pattern that I donated to them.
Avi owns the first try at it; most probably you critiqued the second one that Dan Zeff sold on his website, and the third and 4th one went to Harry Lynch, which he sold the 3rd to a sound engineer and then the engineer sold it to a fellow in England, who wrote me to say it was his dream guitar.
Harry wound up keeping the 4th Reyes style for his personal collection.
It usually takes me about 5 guitar models to get everything right with the intent of the original makers, if everything goes right.
I did the same with the Daniel Friederich model; about 5 guitars to try and find his way of building, etc. And I might add that good patterns will normally produce good results, which the Reyes and Friederich have.
Also, the Miguel Rodriguez is not a good pattern to work with; without knowing its basic fine-tuning aspects, and this took me some years to realize its strength and value.
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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
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Date Apr. 23 2014 15:00:18
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