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aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

Paco's masterpiece 

Unfortunately I have not found a good link to a YouTube presentation of Trantas
by him. I have found 3 other classical guitarists that play the piece and this is far and away the most flamboyant.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2014 21:51:27
 
athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2014 21:57:15
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

quote:

Unfortunately I have not found a good link to a YouTube presentation of Trantas
by him.

you are really not looking hard enough - maybe part of the problem is that you are looking for "Trantas"?



also here from 3:38



different mix of Tarantas falsetas mostly recorded as "Aires de Linares" on "Fantasia Flamenca" album



but if you really want Paco's Fuente Y Caudal Tarantas played by someone else there are plenty more flamenco versions







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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2014 22:13:11
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

Well I guess that covers the water front. One thing, the classical guitarist doesn't use a capo and I think that results in a deeper sound. But a guitar piece for flamenco/classical guitarists on the highest plane.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2014 22:31:28
 
athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

aeolus! stop posting and watch El Torta singing por Bulerías 6 hours a day.
After that, I hope you'll be able to decide what you really want.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2014 22:33:58
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

Apples and oranges my friend. They are not mutually exclusive. That is one can enjoy virtuositic flourishes as well as cante jondo.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 6 2014 22:48:15
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

quote:

I have found 3 other classical guitarists that play the piece and this is far and away the most flamboyant.


That F# in the beginning looks very painful for him, that's not right, he should have a doctor look at that. lolol

2:05 to 2:20 is a total mess.

I'm gonna hold a class down at the Y for classical guitarists, "How to strum a guitar 101"
lolol, I've seen julean bream do it too, it's soooo awkward looking and sounding.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2014 2:39:32
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

Apples and oranges my friend.


Yeah but what you do since you joined the forum is more like trying to eat a Tbone steak with japanese chopsticks and fail over and over again.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2014 3:52:39
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

quote:

I have found 3 other classical guitarists that play the piece and this is far and away the most flamboyant.

why are you looking for classical guitarists to play what you acknowledge to be "Paco's masterpiece"?
There are plenty of more authentic and accurate interpretations.
I thought classical musicians were supposed to follow the score and play what the composer intended?
The "urtext" in this case is Paco de Lucia's recording.
There is even video to help.
the guy you posted murdered it.
The phrasing is all wrong.
The sound is all soft and syrupy.
his picado is bad and his rasgueado is awful (file under "wathgwado").
like one of the YouTube comments says "the acting is stupid."
I couldn't even watch the whole thing (I had to minimise it and just listen).
You seem to be trying to post the most unflamenco versions you can find.
are you trying to wind people up to get a reaction?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2014 8:52:10
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

So painful, both to watch and listen. Most excruciating a torture was the tremolo phrasing; Paco De Lucia's guitar sings it, effortlessly and smoothly, while Dervoed [the classical guitarist] shatters it into pieces, and drags them together anxiously into a meaningless phrase.

If you were trying to juxtapose classical and flamenco styles to show how the former isn't equipped to interpret the latter, this was as strong and conclusive an evidence as one could ever find.

If you thought, on the other hand, that this was a fine rendition of Paco De Lucia's work, well then, perhaps you ought to listen more to Paco De Lucia and pay less attention to his ill fit interpreters, such as this.

Or.... whatever floats your boat.

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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2014 14:12:59
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

That was weird for many reasons..

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2014 14:37:25
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to gj Michelob

quote:

Most excruciating a torture


So glad I did not even bother to click on that.

Plus we just had the same annoying discussion. Deja Vu:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=244079&p=4&tmode=1&smode=1

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2014 14:47:28
 
changue

 

Posts: 187
Joined: Aug. 31 2010
From: London

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to Ricardo

I lasted 26 seconds with Mr Dervoed. I would suggest he might want to check out Salva de Real. But that's just my 2 cents' worth…
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2014 19:50:44
 
rojarosguitar

Posts: 243
Joined: Dec. 8 2010
 

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to changue

quote:


I lasted 26 seconds with Mr Dervoed. I would suggest he might want to check out Salva de Real. But that's just my 2 cents' worth…


It reminds me classical players who have a great technique of their instrument think they can automatically play jazz (or flamenco in this context). Big error ...

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A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2014 20:01:41
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to Leñador

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador
I'm gonna hold a class down at the Y for classical guitarists, "How to strum a guitar 101"
lolol, I've seen julean bream do it too, it's soooo awkward looking and sounding.


Pepe Romero is the only classical guitarist I have seen who has a decent rasgueado--except for Grisha of course, and his concert partner Jerome Mouffe is picking it up pretty well. Grisha and Jerome played classical and flamenco duets at their concert on March 29, Grisha played flamenco solos, Jerome played classical solos, one of them amazingly difficult, pulling it off very well.

The day before the concert, they gave a master class at the University Of Texas at Austin. Some good players played for them. Adam Holzman, the head of the University guitar department was there.

The most virtuosic student played the last movement of Rodrigo's Sonata Giocosa, which is guajiras in form and meter, with a fair amount of rasgueado. Her rhythm was dead square, no guajiras swing, but her playing was accurate and fluent, good dynamics. Her rasgueados didn't sound nearly as bad as most classical guitarists, but she sounded notably better after Grisha's rasgueado lesson.

Grisha gave a very detailed description and demonstration of flamenco style a-m-i-i rasgueado for about ten minutes. Everybody in the room paid very close attention, and everybody was doing rasgueados on their leg as they watched and listened.

After the student showed she had picked up part of what Grisha said, she asked about using the thumb. Grisha described and demonstrated p-m-p rasgueado, without using the word "abanico", but there wasn't as much time to work on that.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2014 20:24:55
 
tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to gj Michelob

I still think fuente y caudal is untouchable. It's a bit like comparing a lamborghini to a lada when it's played by someone else.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2014 20:41:58
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

Yipes! Anal retentiveness in full bloom.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2014 21:07:21
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

quote:

Yipes! Anal retentiveness in full bloom.


Without mentioning his playing, what's with all those awkward gestures?

Looks like he is taking a major dump that has been crowning since the first note he played.

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2014 22:02:14
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

Looks like he is taking a major dump that has been crowning since the first note he played.


He's not the one that has sphincter problems.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2014 22:24:18
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

So glad I did not even bother to click on that.

Plus we just had the same annoying discussion. Deja Vu:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=244079&p=4&tmode=1&smode=1


Absolutely, in fact Ricardo, your comment in that thread applies squarely here,

Ricardo wrote ".... I approve of the idea to interpret that piece in a classical style, but the problem here is mostly timing. I mean it's a free piece but a perfect example where a good sense of timing will influence the phrasing. The dramatic pausing between phrases just doesn't work sorry. It makes the piece very boring sounding, it needs to flow better. THe tremolo needs work technically speaking. Tons of top classical players could do that section justice IMO."

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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 7 2014 23:38:11
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

quote:

Pepe Romero is the only classical guitarist I have seen who has a decent rasgueado--except for Grisha of course,


This is true Pepe knows what he's doing. Obviously Grisha, haven't seen Jerome but if he can keep up with Grisha and Pepe I'm sure he's top notch.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2014 0:01:54
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to Leñador

quote:

quote:

Pepe Romero is the only classical guitarist I have seen who has a decent rasgueado--except for Grisha of course,


This is true Pepe knows what he's doing. Obviously Grisha, haven't seen Jerome but if he can keep up with Grisha and Pepe I'm sure he's top notch.




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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2014 0:06:40
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

hmmmm certainly very virtuosic, and heaps better then I could do, but maybe a little too fast dare I say?? Seemed to lack a sort of soniquete groove…….Is it just me?? Like maybe the compas was not spot on…….

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2014 0:16:11
 
rombsix

Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

quote:

I have found 3 other classical guitarists that play the piece and this is far and away the most flamboyant.


That was one of the most awesome performances I've seen in a LONG time. I can' stop myself from chuckling. I love the look at the end when he strums that last chord & gives everyone in the audience the middle finger with his fretting hand. Kudos to him though - I think he did great. Just really hilarious.

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2014 1:39:58
 
beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

quote:

Seemed to lack a sort of soniquete groove…….Is it just me??


No, it's not just You....I don't like the Romero family as far as flamenco goes...they just doesn't sound flamenco to me at all...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2014 8:11:42
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to rombsix

[Deleted by Admins]

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2014 12:16:09
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to beno

quote:

I don't like the Romero family as far as flamenco goes...they just doesn't sound flamenco to me at all...


You are not alone.

I will say this, though: I once saw Angel at the RFH playing Aranjuez and it was terrific — dead centre of what he does well.

(He blew kisses to the audience afterwards; I was laughing at the idea of Segovia doing that.)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2014 16:25:05
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus



Superb. Flawless technique. But still...to laid back. Lacks the fire of Artyom Dervoed. Yes his tremolo is amateurish. I really think the lack of a capo contributes to the presentation. Why would one need a capo but to ease the difficulties?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2014 21:03:23
 
athrane77

Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

quote:

I really think the lack of a capo contributes to the presentation. Why would one need a capo but to ease the difficulties?

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2014 21:16:26
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Paco's masterpiece (in reply to aeolus

aeolus, you can't be serious. This recording lacks nothing. Tarantas doesn't need fire; it's a dark palo. Paco has the sentiment just right. Also the line about capo being there to "ease the difficulties" is wrong. Every tonality has its own identity and G# sounds very different from F#.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 8 2014 21:21:52
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