From the Horses Mouth

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guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

From the Horses Mouth

Aaron Copeland ruminates on music. It is great to hear the composers own narrative, and saves us the trouble of imposing our own on them.

I am sure there are discussions like this with Paco but I speak no Spanish

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2014 9:51:41

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

If only there was more TV like this.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2014 23:30:15

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

Glenn talks about the change of focus which lead to JS Bach being considered irrelevant due to the new principles of the 'classical' composers lead by his sons CPE and JC. His opinion on Beethoven as the culmination of the classical school and the first to hearken back to JS in his transcendence of it.

Also one can see the physical affectations which had such a disasterous consequence on his physicality later in life.

No knife fights, no flamenco.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2014 19:46:09

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

Also one can see the physical affectations which had such a disasterous consequence on his physicality later in life.

How so? I don't see any connection to his mannerisms and the stroke that ended his life.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2014 20:00:40

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

quote:

Also one can see the physical affectations which had such a disasterous consequence on his physicality later in life.

How so? I don't see any connection to his mannerisms and the stroke that ended his life.

I knew a man who got hit by a bus and lost a leg.

Since he died by being struck by lightning twenty years later I can only assume that the loss of his leg didn't have any consequences in the interim.

A.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2014 20:08:55

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

You're talking nonsense now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2014 20:27:49

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

You're talking nonsense now.

There is a lot of it about.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2014 20:33:32

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

I can't disagree with that

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2014 20:36:40

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

As musical illiterate I am enormously impressed that Gould plays frpm memory while Menuhin plays from a score.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2014 20:42:05

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

quote:

Also one can see the physical affectations which had such a disasterous consequence on his physicality later in life.

How so? I don't see any connection to his mannerisms and the stroke that ended his life.

I knew a man who got hit by a bus and lost a leg.

Since he died by being struck by lightning twenty years later I can only assume that the loss of his leg didn't have any consequences in the interim.

why not just answer the guys question about what you wrote? Is that somehow beneath you?

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 27 2014 9:51:16

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

why not just answer the guys question about what you wrote? Is that somehow beneath you?

No. I simply didn't want to discuss it here as I have not found such discussions rewarding in the past.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 27 2014 10:33:00

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

why not just answer the guys question about what you wrote? Is that somehow beneath you?

No. I simply didn't want to discuss it here as I have not found such discussions rewarding in the past.

so why not just avoid posting stuff you don't want to discuss?

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 27 2014 12:52:37

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

so why not just avoid posting stuff you don't want to discuss?

Precisely what I did.

I invited people to observe for themselves.

I would welcome your comments on any of the videos I posted.

Your attempts to instruct me in etiquette are of course priceless. Are you perchance wearing a cape ?

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 27 2014 13:01:02

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

so why not just avoid posting stuff you don't want to discuss?

Precisely what I did.

I invited people to observe for themselves.

but.... you didn't just post videos, you added some comments, and Aeolus didn't even ask for a discussion, I think he asked some clarification/explanation.

I might have asked what you meant too, but from looking at the video I can guess what you were getting at.... and if you meant what I think you meant I would probably agree with you.

But then I don't know if you meant what I think you might have meant so I can't be sure....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 28 2014 10:21:37

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

I might have asked what you meant too, but from looking at the video I can guess what you were getting at.... and if you meant what I think you meant I would probably agree with you.

I would certainly like to know what GB was getting at. I have read several biographies of Gould and purchased his celebrated debut recording of the Goldberg Variations when it first was released. I know that he ingested an alarming quantity of pharmaceuticals (according to his friends) that one might think did him no good. But if GB wants to pout and play the lofty intellectual, I'd like to hear your take.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 28 2014 10:43:46

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

I would certainly like to know what GB was getting at.

Well, I don't really know what he was getting at, and I can't speak for him,
(and I also can't claim to know anything much about Glen Gould),
but what I assumed he was getting at was the relationship between the way Gould held and moved himself in the vids and the later development of problems with his hands.

You can read about it here;

http://www.handoc.com/Documents/GOULD_Tubiana20001.pdf

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 28 2014 22:41:21

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to mark indigo)

I wouldn't narrow it to hands.

Rubenstein is much older than Gould here watch his entry at the four minute mark and ask yourself how much more comfortable Rubenstein was going about his daily business, walking to the shops and back, putting socks on etc.

Compared to this man.

Not that I mean to be unkind to Mr Gould's memory. I imagine nothing would be more rewarding than to work with someone like him on mitigating their discomfort.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 28 2014 23:18:51

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

ell, I don't really know what he was getting at, and I can't speak for him,
(and I also can't claim to know anything much about Glen Gould),
but what I assumed he was getting at was the relationship between the way Gould held and moved himself in the vids and the later development of problems with his hands.

You can read about it here;

http://www.handoc.com/Documents/GOULD_Tubiana20001.pdf

Thanks. I had read that piece and I didn't make the leap between his physical problems and the description of disastrous consequences that GB draws. After all the hand cramps and related issues are an occupational hazard for musicians. David Leisner had to sit out 12 years of his career dealing with focal dystonia but over came it and now teaches the methods he learned to students. Gould recorded until almost the end of his life so what ever difficulties he had were manageable. As for Rubenstein's happy go lucky disposition, I have seen him in concert and heard him make a fumbling hash of a piece from beginning to end.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2014 10:28:44

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to aeolus)

Well that was precisely as rewarding as I expected it to be.

But don't let my exasperation diminish the satisfaction of being willfully obtuse Aeolus.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2014 10:53:25

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

Well that was precisely as rewarding as I expected it to be.

But don't let my exasperation diminish the satisfaction of being willfully obtuse Aeolus.

I can't imagine what would be a rewarding conversation on the subject of Gould's physical problems as the article that Mark posted is probably the last word on the subject. Unless you have some penetrating insights to add.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2014 12:18:57

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

I can't imagine what would be a rewarding conversation on the subject of Gould's physical problems as the article that Mark posted is probably the last word on the subject.

Unless you have some penetrating insights to add.

Nope not at all.

I am heartened and glad that you and Mark have at last recognised your common ground and are bonding.

Quite touching really.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2014 14:19:51

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

Nope not at all.

I am heartened and glad that you and Mark have at last recognised your common ground and are bonding.

Quite touching really.

Try to see the exchange objectively. You make a cryptic remark and get defensive when 2 respondents ask for clarification. The article linked to was very through in recording the known history of Goulds maladies. I can't imagine any of us being able to add anything but idle uninformed speculation.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2014 15:00:01

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

I can't imagine any of us being able to add anything but idle uninformed speculation.

Well we got your presumably well informed (and I am sure not based on an imaginary event) opinion on Rubenstein.

Classic trolling, my congratulations and no less commendable for having been predicted.

And thanks again Mark for reminding me of my responsibility to engage with trolls.

And if there are any young players watching who want to look as shrunken and prematurely aged as Gould I would urge them to accept unquestioned any emerging physical affectations. OK that could lead to a lifetime of pain, but better that than 'speculating' as to what is and isn't a good idea in terms of body use.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2014 17:37:46

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

I guess your definition of a troll is someone who doesn't accept your opinions as beyond question.

quote:

I imagine nothing would be more rewarding than to work with someone like him on mitigating their discomfort.

A fantasy?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2014 18:10:06

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to aeolus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

A fantasy?

Actually the last time I was with someone with a similar physicality and spinal curvature it was my girlfriends grandmother. It was a treat to be with her as she enjoyed breathing easily for a time and became calm. She died a few days later.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2014 22:25:04

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

Rubenstein is much older than Gould here watch his entry at the four minute mark and ask yourself how much more comfortable Rubenstein was going about his daily business, walking to the shops and back, putting socks on etc.

Yeah? How do you know this? More fantasy?

No reward in such pointless imaginings.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 29 2014 22:44:37

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

And now a word from Mr. Ed, Glen G's piano teacher and intimate confidant of Aaron Copland:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2014 11:44:19

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

I also recommend this book:

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674678569&content=reviews

Instead of a talking horse, Igor talks.

________

The rest did need to live forever on the internet so I deleted it.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2014 12:23:22

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

She was more famous. But who is bigger? Henry Miller or Segovia?

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/orwellg/whale.htm

Can't find Orwell on Segovia.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2014 12:28:52

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: From the Horses Mouth (in reply to guitarbuddha)

" Paris was invaded by such a swarm of artists, writers, students, dilettanti, sight-seers, debauchees, and plain idlers as the world has probably never seen. In some quarters of the town the so-called artists must actually have outnumbered the working population—indeed, it has been reckoned that in the late twenties there were as many as 30,000 painters in Paris, most of them impostors. The populace had grown so hardened to artists that gruff-voiced lesbians in corduroy breeches and young men in Grecian or medieval costume could walk the streets without attracting a glance, and along the Seine banks Notre Dame it was almost impossible to pick one's way between the sketching-stools."

Orwell must be your idol...or idle? I wonder if Alice B.Toklas was one of those corduroy breeched lesbians?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 30 2014 13:09:11