RE: guitar finsihing problems

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Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

I personal prefer a neck that has been slightly rubbed with 0000 steelwool and i finish many of my guitars neck that way

Doesn't it leave a trace of where the rubbed area is? I never noticed anything on the necks of your guitars (pictures) but at least on electric guitars the transition gets pretty obvious.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2014 23:31:47

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Sr. Martins)

I believe that many of the finest violins are left with the neck unfinished.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 0:02:53

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

I believe that many of the finest violins are left with the neck unfinished.

That doesn't count.

The double basses I usually play are also like that but you can see it from a distance. I just don't remember seeing spanish guitars with that matte effect on the back of the neck that can be very evident on electric guitars.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 0:11:36

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Violin necks are hand polished with linseed oil or sometimes shellac.

Guitar necks work both ways, super glossed up or with the finish knocked down. If the neck feels sticky try polishing it with 3M plastic polish or some high grade auto body polish....it will be 'fast'. Likewise with steel wool. If a glossy neck is sticky it's probably not actually taken to a high high polish.

Neck cross section shape has more to do with how fast it "feels" in my opinion, than neck thickness or gloss vs. matt. - If the neck is really thick, not so good. Ultra thin necks are bad for ergonomic and sound production reasons.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 2:51:31

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1675
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to estebanana)

My customers think I'm crazy when I tell them this, and you probably will too, but I like to clean my guitars with Endust--which says it contains no wax, but it sure feels like wax to me, a mixture of wax and water. It leaves the neck a little slippery, which is nice. I also dress fingerboards with coconut oil (usually only once) and that makes things nice and slick too.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 2:59:40

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Endust is such a brilliant product name. If I were an advertising man I would wish I had thought that up, it was like the 'Got Milk' of the 1950's-

of course we're guitar makers and big advertising is a strange concept.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 4:02:01

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Sr. Martins)

I assume the reason for less friction with mate surfaces to lie on molecular level.
The smoother a touched surface the more adhesion there will be as the contacting surface / number of contacting molecules increases.

The phenomenon enhances with growing humidity, as the skin will then allow for better interlocking on molecular level as well.
Thus, whilst with hands dry as dust the enhanced friction with glossy surfaces may be only little noticable ( = cohesion in place / inner molecular attraction overweighing the one with other material), with damp hands the grip effect on smooth surfaces will be very obvious.
-

I guess everyone could agree on that untreated wood will feel and handle best of all ( its tactile qualities have been confirmed scientifically too), only that less dense / dry wood sorts will become stained from hand sweat over time, presenting a little cosmetic issue then which could be counter productive to resale conditions.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 8:07:15

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

quote:

I personal prefer a neck that has been slightly rubbed with 0000 steelwool and i finish many of my guitars neck that way

Doesn't it leave a trace of where the rubbed area is? I never noticed anything on the necks of your guitars (pictures) but at least on electric guitars the transition gets pretty obvious.

First of all 0000 steelwool is very fine a leave at semi matte surface. What i do is to polish the whole neck, heel and headstock with that (except the headplate)
I personally think it looks better to.
It feels very good.

Most violin necks are left raw and polished with finger and hand juice and sweat during use. It gets pretty with time. And nothing takes out the figuring in flame maple better than sweat and hand juice. You can put some oil on it, but it doesnt feel as good as the real stuff.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 10:19:55

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Anders,

Are there any reservations that you could think of for who considers applying the 0000 steelwool after shop? ( Other than predefining the section / arranging for clear stops.)

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 11:05:07

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

Most violin necks are left raw and polished with finger and hand juice and sweat during use. It gets pretty with time. And nothing takes out the figuring in flame maple better than sweat and hand juice. You can put some oil on it, but it doesnt feel as good as the real stuff.

And you know this because you've worked in several top level violin shops?

The violin shops I worked in sealed the necks with shellac, lacquer or linseed oil. And depending on the aesthetic of the shop they also darkened the wood by oxidizing it with with potassium permanganate or an oil derived paint stain made with burnt umber and or raw sienna.
Actually the flame and figure in wood pops out much better with an oil based finish than with a hand sweat and moisture. I'm doubtful many high level shops leave violin necks totally raw, they rub them with oil and burnish them with a cloth. But of course there's room for interpretation. The second shop I worked in used a light hand applied lacquer to the neck, the first one a bit of linseed oil and some burnishing. On the recent work I've been staining a bit with a water color and using poppy seed oil and then burnishing with a cotton cloth.

The oil from your body is really not a good finish if you want flame and figure to pop, I'm surprised you said that. The way to get flame ot pop is to increase the refractive index, and hand/body oil imbeds dirt into the wood and blocks the light from refracting. Some people like duller more tame looking necks that don't refract much and the hands naturally give a veil of dirty grease to a neck, which is ok. Who wants the neck to out shine the back and top? I don't, but to say the hand oil gives good the best refractive qualities is misleading.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 13:05:19

Flamingrae

Posts: 220
Joined: May 19 2009

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

Violin necks are hand polished with linseed oil or sometimes shellac.

If they are finished with shellac then it's bad practise (according to the way I was taught) If you can leave raw or sometimes Danish, linseed or tung oil but not shellac as it restricts smooth movement and can become sticky. Anders is on the right track.
I'm not using much on my guitar necks apart from the sealer which burnishes up well after you start to play the instrument.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 13:09:44

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

What i do is to polish the whole neck, heel and headstock with that (except the headplate)

Well, that explains why there are no visible margins.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 13:44:35

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

but to say the hand oil gives good the best refractive qualities is misleading.

maybe my hand juice is just from another planet.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 15:43:41

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

Anders,

Are there any reservations that you could think of for who considers applying the 0000 steelwool after shop? ( Other than predefining the section / arranging for clear stops.)

No reservations from me, but maybe someone else has some clever reservations.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 15:45:30

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Sr. Martins)

Gracias!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 16:31:51

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

maybe my hand juice is just from another planet.

Nah, it's Danish oil cured in Spain

I prefer my finger oil on a dry rosewood fretboard. I still clean it, but not too vigourously.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 16:34:07

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Sr. Martins)

I smell a Danish Hamlet.

And now to go eat an omlete and be off to the monastery.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2014 22:45:39

Haithamflamenco

Posts: 927
Joined: Mar. 6 2007
From: Bahrain

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Sr. Martins)

I thougt all of that replay was talking about my work,

hahahaha, what a foro!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2014 6:44:46

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: guitar finsihing problems (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

Haitham, brother, these blond danish and english people
with their watery body fluids obviously don't know what kind
of an oil OUR bodies down there under the blazing sun produce,
otherwise they wouldn't give dangerous advices such
as polishing our guitars with our body oil LoL

My hand juice is sand paper, oil and KrazyGlue in one product.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2014 7:32:42