RE: Pacos Discography

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xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1890
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Pimientito)

here you go Pim

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2014 14:55:52

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

Wow....you get 6 extra songs on that which are not accompanied by Paco.
The original album has 12 tracks. Your version must have another EP attached as well.

Man I'd love that Mclaughlin set but $235 is a bit steep!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2014 16:27:59

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus
Paco Doble, LP, Philips, 9279241

Side 1: 7 tracks of Paco de Lucia
Side 2: 7 tracks of Paco Pena

I have been asked many times to give away this LP (, but resisted).
Makes you wonder why Philips never released it again, not even as CD.
( - Maybe because of originally 8 different publishers involved?)

Ruphus

As far as i know the record was released without Paco Peña's knowledge/consent. If that is the reason it is nor reprinted (there seems to be a 1969 and a 1983 print) is hard to say because various other records/video's of Paco are sold without his consent as well. The Paco Double record is frequently offered on eBay.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2014 17:54:39

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

Aah ...! That could explain why this release is not been found on his website.
( Which he besides updated. Last time I visited it had only a handful albums under discography.)

Just say these bastards refused to refund him even after his probable objections / rather ceased the sales (?) :O/

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2014 18:25:52

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

Aah ...! That could explain why this release is not been found on his website.
( Which he besides updated. Last time I visited it had only a handful albums under discography.)

I had a look at it just now. The opening page is totally black with only "PACO DE LUCIA we owe you so much". The second page expresses the loss we all feel right now.

http://www.pacopena.com/page.php?id=49

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2014 19:02:03

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

Not that I could claim to know him; only had him sign an album after a concert, but the great sympathetic appearance and aura of humbleness reflects once again in Paco´s words about PdL.

The discography page is located here: http://www.pacopena.com/discs.php

Ruphus

PS:
Why the hell did these two never gig and track together!?
So much more promissing than any some McLaughlin tootling. ( Forgive me, Pim and who else who like his performance.)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2014 20:18:32

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

I dont know if what you wrote is correct.

i don't know either!

it's just what I've heard/read. Seems unlikely that Entre dos Aguas was just made up in the studio.... but the other version I heard was certainly less well formed, less structured, seemed more like a work in progress or demo than the other version, maybe it was just a not so good take.

quote:

However the kitchen scene was indeed aired in 1973, May 21. Perhaps it was filmed a bit earlier, but the series spans the years 1971-73.

is that the one from Rito Y Geografia? It's not his brother Ramon in that film.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2014 23:06:22

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

Man I'd love that Mclaughlin set but $235 is a bit steep!

but better than $27,999.99 + $3.99 shipping

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2014 23:09:59

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

Why the hell did these two never gig and track together!?

can you imagine Paco Peña playing Zyryab?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2014 23:15:45

mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

So cool to see Paco played with Rocio Durcal. She was a favorite of my grandparents, a legendary ranchera singer, but she originated from Spain

I also didn't know Paco played on Como El Agua, I always assumed it was Tomatito...cool discoveries

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2014 23:21:19

Aretium

Posts: 277
Joined: Oct. 23 2012

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to mark74)

Where did Paco get inspiration for all these creations? It boggles me.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2014 23:23:02

mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Aretium)

genio mi amigo flamenco

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2014 23:28:06

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 12 2014 19:56:18

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 0:05:00

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Also the British release of Fuente with different version of Entre dos Aguas I would like to have.

I have a copy in storage in England, it’s imaginatively entitled Paco.

I believe the only track different is Entre dos aguas, and in my opinion the English version sucks: it’s just bunch of fast scales thrown together to amaze the natives.

I haven’t played it since I got a copy of Fuente y caudal.

If you like it, fine, of course.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 2:01:00

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

THe paco tracks selections of Paco and Ramon doing the hispanic american thing, the other side Peña alone.

The Peña tracks are from his 2nd LP, Carnival, With Los Maracuchos. The anthology doesn‘t include the best track, Seis por derecho, which is simply stunning, and leaves the Lauro solo guitar arrangement (good though that is) for dead.

Naturally, it’s sunk without trace (apart from that Paco Doble anthology); I'’ve never even seen a second-hand copy for sale, ever.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 2:04:30

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

Its ironic that Pacos most famous work as far as the general public is concerned was an improvisation thrown together as quick as possible to finish Fuente y Caudal.

I’ve never believed it. I think it’s one of those stories thrown together by PR companies, like Tab Hunter’s romances with his leading ladies.

• It’s the first track on the album.
• It’s the only track with bass and bongos.
• Philips had already been busting its guts trying to sell him to a wider audience.

quote:

However the picado run in the middle of the British version is still to this day the most jaw dropping and awesome piece of guitar playing that I have ever heard.

How about the run on the repeat in Roja de celos on Canciones andaluces para dos guitarras?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 2:19:42

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

quote:

I’ve never believed it. I think it’s one of those stories thrown together by PR companies, like Tab Hunter’s romances with his leading ladies.

• It’s the first track on the album.
• It’s the only track with bass and bongos.
• Philips had already been busting its guts trying to sell him to a wider audience.

completely agree, but as you said yourself;

quote:

the English version sucks: it’s just bunch of fast scales thrown together to amaze the natives.

maybe that's where the "improvised in the studio" story comes from...?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 7:00:30

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Pimientito)

re the recording with Niño de Barbate it looks like there were actually two LP's recorded.
I didn't realise.
Friend of mine has an old LP, but I picked the CD up in a shop yesterday and it has 22 tracks and sleeve notes say it was originally "dos elepés".
I checked the wiki discography and it does have two serial numbers listed.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 7:14:08

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

quote:

How about the run on the repeat in Roja de celos on Canciones andaluces para dos guitarras?

I didnt even know that album existed until last week. This thread has given me a lot of new info.

quote:

maybe that's where the "improvised in the studio" story comes from...?

Thats what Pacos sister said on "light and shade" so I assumed there was some truth in it.

quote:

re the recording with Niño de Barbate it looks like there were actually two LP's recorded.

Well done...I'll add it to the list

Thanks everyone for your help on this . We are close to a pretty definitive discography now and the most complete one available on the net.

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"Ceremonial" by Mark Shurey "Pimientito". CD and digital download vailable on Amazon and
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 7:49:02

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

The Peña tracks are from his 2nd LP, Carnival, With Los Maracuchos.

On the Dos Pacos cover for 5 of Paco Pena´s tracks there are mentioned 3 different publishers. How would that coincide with sourcing from a single album project?

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 9:08:05

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

quote:

re the recording with Niño de Barbate it looks like there were actually two LP's recorded.

Well done...I'll add it to the list

both were released one after the other in 1971 and both were titled "Niño de Barbate con la colaboracion especial de Paco de Lucía 2a guitarra Ramón de Algeciras"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 9:58:20

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to mark indigo)

I found this 3 LP set of Camaron de la Isla and Paco de Lucia.
Unfortunately I dont have the outer record sleeve so I dont know what it is
called and Im having trouble finding it on the Camaron discography. Does anyone else have this set with the sleeve?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 10:27:34

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

I found this 3 LP set of Camaron de la Isla and Paco de Lucia.
Unfortunately I dont have the outer record sleeve so I dont know what it is
called and Im having trouble finding it on the Camaron discography. Does anyone else have this set with the sleeve?

looks like a compilation, but I guess you knew that.... I have all the tracks shown on the label in close up.
There seems to be a huge and confusing number of Camarón re-releases, re-issues, compilations, best of, Anthology, greatest hits, best 50, top 100, disco de oro, La Leyenda, Una Leyenda Flamenca, etc. etc.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 14:30:03

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Ruphus)

quote:

On the Dos Pacos cover for 5 of Paco Pena´s tracks there are mentioned 3 different publishers. How would that coincide with sourcing from a single album project?

Those are the publishers that hold the copyright on the (sheet) music; that has nothing to do with who put the album out.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 15:12:40

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

p.s. Im glad you are here Paul as you are one of the other collectors that Im hoping can fill in the gaps

Unfortunately my main computer went belly-up last week. Of course I have all the data backed up, but the result is that I’m rather busy right now.

When I have time I’ll double-check your list.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 15:20:19

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pimientito

I found this 3 LP set of Camaron de la Isla and Paco de Lucia.
Unfortunately I dont have the outer record sleeve so I dont know what it is
called and Im having trouble finding it on the Camaron discography. Does anyone else have this set with the sleeve?

By guitarists it looks like a "best of" compilation.

About Peña PDL duo....two guitarists of different caliber and style. Not much of a "fusion" either since they both follow N. Ricardo.
Probably they could have dueted some N. Ricardo or Sabicas stuff, but considering PDL's direction it would have been not much of a
big push for PDL artistically. Better would have been a full album of duets with Sanlucar that never manifested. I don't mean to burst
any bubble of Peña fans, he is a great interpreter of the classics of traditional flamenco. We discussed this in the past, my opinion is
that his success has been do to hanging out in England with the likes of Bream and Williams, becoming the token solo flamenco
guitarist.

His albums in USA have been found in the classical bin, vs all other flamenco players found in "world music/Spain" section. Why is he
not taken as such an important "figura" in spain compared to others, even ones that don't play at his technical level? It is simply
because he does not appear as a seasoned accompanist of famous cantaores in that humble role as pretty much all the other figura
guitaristas in Spain. I am not saying he CAN'T, but he simply does not have any historic recordings in that regard and therefore is sort
of off the map of for aficionados. Indeed there are some that don't care at all about PDL's solo or other guitar playing projects, and
he only counts as "great" in spain due to his extensive discography as an accompanist.

And last note about Peña not giving permission for such a "doble" ablum, let me just say as discussed in other topics about copyrights
and such, NO recording artist with a serious record label has any right about this issue. Neither PDL or any other. Only independent
artists with their own label/publisher can do that, and they rarely become international stars. As far as I know, the only album PDL
seems to have some control over was Siroco, as if you look at publishing, producing, and record label, it's a little off the normal path
of his Polygram business.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 15:25:32

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Paul Magnussen)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

quote:

On the Dos Pacos cover for 5 of Paco Pena´s tracks there are mentioned 3 different publishers. How would that coincide with sourcing from a single album project?

Those are the publishers that hold the copyright on the (sheet) music; that has nothing to do with who put the album out.

Publishers typically hold both (c) (sheet) and (P) which is the SOUND RECORDING.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 15:29:54

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen

Those are the publishers that hold the copyright on the (sheet) music; that has nothing to do with who put the album out.

Thought those were in courtesy of labels.
I see now; thanks for making that clear to me!

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 15:51:59

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Publishers typically hold both (c) (sheet) and (P) which is the SOUND RECORDING.

Just had another look. It actually says (P).
So, though accidentally, me must have been right.
The tracks ought to have been taken from diverse recordings.

... I want Magnussen´s head on a tablet.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 15:56:57

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Pacos Discography (in reply to Ruphus)

I stand corrected.

quote:

... I want Magnussen´s head on a tablet.

You’ll have to join the queue, which dates back to my days with Guitar International.

(One day I was walking back from a concert at the Wigmore Hall with some friends, and one of them suggested we go to a Spanish restaurant in the Marylebone Road for a drink.

So we went in, and I was introduced to the people who were already there. One of them, who’d had a few beverages, said “You’re Paul Magnussen?”

And when I nodded, he said “You’re a c--t!”

Apparently he’d taken exception to a couple of my reviews.)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2014 17:33:07