RE: Juan Martin vs PdL

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bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

The idea of Juan Martín as a joke is a typical "I know everything" attitude or "I know better"

In many peñas here in Andalucia, if you are good at playing Juan Martín stuff, and besides that have a good compás and know how to follow a singer, then you will be considered a good flamenco guitarists.
If you dont know how to follow a singer and your compás isnt good, you´ll be considered a bad flamenco guitarist

If you are good at playing Paco, and besides that have a good compás and know how to follow a singer, then you will be considered a better flamenco guitarists.
If you play Paco well, but dont know how to follow a singer and your compás isnt good, you´ll be considered a bad flamenco guitarist.

What to learn: Go compás and Go learning how to follow a singer. The rest comes second.

very true my friend, very true!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 9:16:34

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to bursche)

Especially foreign flamencos should learn to become very humble when it comes to their playing.
We are stealing the music from the gypsies!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 9:25:36

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to bursche)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bursche

Especially foreign flamencos should learn to become very humble when it comes to their playing.

As far as i know he is foreign as well and born as John. On his own website the first thing he advertises is the fact that he was voted to be 1 of the best 3 players in the world (according to us magazine guitar player). He of all people should know better :-)

I learned my first flamenco material from his book (which inspired me and many many others) but never passed it to others myself because over the years i found better versions of the same material elsewhere.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 11:13:12

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to Erik van Goch)

If I'd get voted the worlds number 3 by a US guitar magazine you bet I'd put it on my website too! That's reasonable for a working musician.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 11:21:01

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 25 2020 17:14:43

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 15:42:38

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 25 2020 17:14:48

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 15:48:03

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to mark indigo)

Comparing guitarist is ridiculous, especially famous ones

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 16:27:30

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to bursche)

I've hung out with Juan in Spain with Spainiards, everyone speaking Spainish. I grew up hearing and speaking Spanish and can say without a doubt he's a native speaker. He reminisced about growing up in Malaga with other people from Malaga, while we were in Malaga. I don't like arguing but whoever told you that is lying. He moved to London in his 20's though so sure, he's been there for probably most his life but so has Paco Pena. If I move to a foreign country now, no matter how long I'm there, I will always be from LA.

His learning material is accessible and a perfectly acceptable gateway for a guiri. He did all us payos a favor by making that initial book and breaking it down the way he did. Think about what there was to learn from pre-Internet when you live 6,000 miles from Spain.

Anyways, don't wanna get in too much trouble here but that's my 2 cents.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 16:34:59

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to bursche)

I see the flamenco snobs are coming out in force again.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 16:48:35

FlamencoD

Posts: 113
Joined: Apr. 7 2012
From: Portland, OR

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to bursche)

I like Juan Martin's material, from his books for learning, and the solo pieces I have heard. I'm not saying he's as good a technical player as PdL, Tomatito, Vicente, etc., but I like the musicality of his solo pieces. I don't know why people feel the need to bash him or others for having a postitive opinion of him.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 18:08:44

tburke

Posts: 45
Joined: Nov. 21 2011
From: Toronto

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to Ricardo)

Juan Martin was for a time head of the flamenco department(when it existed) at my university, which think is pretty cool, he must be fairly into the sharing/teaching aspect of things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 19:52:21

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 25 2020 17:14:58

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 20:21:27

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to bursche)

Then many people lied to you. At most they met him in the 70's in London, he said "call me John" and their imagination took it from there. My evidence for this is first hand not here say. I hope this doesn't turn into an Obamas birth certificate situation...,,.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 20:27:49

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to Yojimbo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yojimbo

I see the flamenco snobs are coming out in force again.

quick...someone start talking about cooking food!!!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 20:36:18

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to bursche)

Haha, anyone like chimichurri sauce?
Fresh parsley, fresh oregano, garlic and olive oil. Mmmmmmmmmm

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 20:44:47

tburke

Posts: 45
Joined: Nov. 21 2011
From: Toronto

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to mark indigo)

Maybe because many people( his target market) who visit his website don't know much about flamenco, Spain or Andalucia and wouldn't recognize the name of the city/village anyway

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

quote:

He reminisced about growing up in Malaga with other people from Malaga, while we were in Malaga. I don't like arguing but whoever told you that is lying.

not one person, many people, most of them who knew him in London....

Most flamenco artists have in their biog where they are born. PDL Algeciras. Paco Peña Cordoba. etc. etc. JM? doesn't say, just a vague "native of Andalucia" which I have always thought is odd.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 20:45:38

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to bursche)

Anyone into eating raw vegetables?
I,m not talking about all this modern posh raw food movement save yourself from disaster. I,m talking about eating raw because you have to and because you can't stop it. I,ve been like that all my life. I don't cut it into pieces, blend, process. No.. I open the fridge and if there,s a nice piece of whatever, I take it out, wash it and put it into my mouth and eat it. it can be cucumber, broccoli, carrot, cabbage... Ouuuuhm, cabbage is really good. just a big raw cut and crunch crunch, down it goes. nimbus, my dog is the same. he loves raw vegetables. today he has eaten a carrot, a big piece of broccoli and a bit of green pebber. good dog.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 22:17:57

RTC

Posts: 667
Joined: Aug. 20 2008
From: DFW Area, Texas

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to FlamencoD)

I owe my my learning flamenco guitar to his books, my teacher uses his material because they have a progressive style of teaching each palo. It is also a well know fact that many people on this foro have started with "El Arte Flamenco De La Guitarra". Have you all seen Grisha playing his material when he was a kid? search it on youtube and be amaze at what he does with JM solos.

I have other series and JM is hard to beat.

As per his abilities as a guitarist, I wish I could play 25% as good as he can.

PS: Add picante to anything including crow and will taste better

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 22:48:06

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to tele)

quote:

Comparing guitarist is ridiculous, especially famous ones

you never choose this cd over that cd, or this guitar over that guitar, or choose this dish over that dish on the menu? we are comparing and choosing all the time.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 23:32:54

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to RTC)

Really guys, what's the matter with some of you to start bashing John over and over again? He's a good guitarist and as far as I am told a humble person. It's no problem for me if he puts a little story on his webpage to advertise himself.
Who cares if someone writes senseless comparisons between him and Paco...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 23:33:58

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2012 23:49:46

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to mark indigo)

I really don't understand this negativity regarding Juan Martin.
He's a musician, an entertainer, a teacher.
What is there to be negative about?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 9 2012 7:49:57

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to bursche)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bursche
He's a good guitarist and as far as I am told a humble person. It's no problem for me if he puts a little story on his webpage to advertise himself.
Who cares if someone writes senseless comparisons between him and Paco...

He should care about the stuff people write about him being factually right. At least, uhm, on his own page...
Just like in the Fakemenco discussions, it is pointless to defend the integrity of somebody who lacks the most basic attitude called honesty. Good teaching material, excellent business man, but failed as human being, if its true that he advertise himself the way people describe.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 9 2012 9:17:01

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 9 2012 10:37:40

johnnefastis

Posts: 631
Joined: Jan. 10 2012

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to bursche)

My first teacher put me off him so I have ignored his material for years.
All this talk has made me want to learn some of the falsettas.

Does anyone have a digital version of El Arte Flamenco de la guitarra.

I have the tape but no tape player at the minute.

PM me if you could send some files I have attached a picture as proof.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 9 2012 13:08:00

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to bursche)

I personally consider these JM discussions to be some of the most stupid ones we,ve ever had on the foro. And they just pop up again and again.

One of the best things about eating raw vegetables is that yo don't have to cook. just out of the fridge, wash and crunch crunch. Today doggy and I had a couple of raddish, some cabbage and a bit of fresh mandarins. Yummy

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 9 2012 13:48:29

Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to bursche)

I'm not sure why it matters where JM was born.

But my teacher (Ruben) told me he (JM) was born in Malaga.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 9 2012 15:44:29

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

I personally consider these JM discussions to be some of the most stupid ones we,ve ever had on the foro. And they just pop up again and again.

Toast some wholemeal bread. Make scambled eggs, using quail eggs (if possible). Spead the eggs on the bread, add layers of smoked salmon (wild, if possibe), a little of lemon and ground black pepper.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 9 2012 16:00:08

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (in reply to bursche)

quote:

n the end i can't say i know either way, so will leave it there....

That's fair, now you've met someone that can tell you definitively that he's absolutely Spanish. He just couldn't have faked it in the situations we were in.

quote:

I met him in person, I went to his concert and was the first flamenco concert i have been to. I was surprised and disappointed by how arrogant he was, not to mention that his compas was a bit shaky sometimes...

At your first flamenco show ever you could tell if someone had shaky compas? Really dude? Must be you 'cus he was one of the nicest artists I've ever met.

quote:

Toast some wholemeal bread. Make scambled eggs, using quail eggs (if possible). Spead the eggs on the bread, add layers of smoked salmon (wild, if possibe), a little of lemon and ground black pepper.

Can you use jamon iberico instead on salmon? don't like salmon so much.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 9 2012 17:05:52