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tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

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deleted, no point in discussing this more

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2013 15:36:10

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

Hello,

I'm in Jerez and Paco Cepero said he could sell his 1982 conde for 25,000 euros. What do you think is the reason for such a price request, is it that he has alot of money, he's egoistic or there is a market for such prices these days?

I wouldn't be surprised if a rich dude would buy that guitar for that price.
The reason of course is he knows he is Paco Cepero and knows that that might add (or for sure adds) to the price. I wouldn't call it egoistic. I would try that too first if i was Paco Cepero or somebody else with a name. But since i am Arash, that will even decrease the price lol

So If someone would pay that price, then the guitar was worth 25.000 for THAT person obviously. So why not. Totally legitimate imo.

I personally would never pay such a price since you will probably find conde guitars with same quality for under 10.000 euros and i'm not someone wanting to have a guitar just because it way owned or played by a famous player. But there are folks out there willing to pay ridiculous prices for such guitars. So why not.

Ehm, ok, to be honest, if Paco de Lucia would consider selling his Conde for 25.000 and if i had the money, i would buy it !!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2013 15:48:37

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to tele)

The Conde that Cepero normally uses is from Faustino, 1978. This guitar is a legenda and could vale 100,000 euros, just as a Conde de Manuel Morao could be a legenda. His 1982 should be good too but is not his favourite guitar.

Cepero is one of the few great tocaores in the history of flamenco.

Cuanto vale una guitarra? Cuanto vale the history? You want to hang it on the wall? you want to play it? If you want to play, there are guitarras just as good for mucho menos.

Only you can decide.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2013 15:51:34

tri7/5

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to tele)

I wouldn't buy EVH's original frankenstrat for 25,000. I don't put merit into guitars just because someone famous owned them. Doesn't mean someone else won't.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2013 16:43:15

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to tri7/5)

I'm I the only one thinking you have to be more than a little egoistic to have the nerve to ask that kind of price just because you're famous? It's not like the seller has a rush or need to sell it but still, come on, I don't think there has been a conde for that kind of price for sale ever.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2013 16:58:53

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to tele)

No.
Its actually egoistic from us to think a name like "Paco Cepero" isn't even worth $10.000 for SOMEONE (not you and me obviously) out there in the world. Just wait and see a japanese guy buying that guitar (after the usual negotiations probably even under $20.000) and saying it was a steal.

So much useless crap like used underwear from famous pop musicians is sold for ridiculous amounts on ebay, auction houses, etc. And we are getting excited about a price a little more than two times higher than another Conde of that time. The used worthless Volkswagen of Angela Merkel was sold for thousands on ebay. Is that "history"? Some crappy sounding guitars like an Archangel (not preowned and played by any famous player) i played are been offered for the same price and nobody complains about some ridiculous "collector" prices and about "egoistic" behaviour of those sellers.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2013 17:33:35

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to tele)

quote:

I'm I the only one thinking you have to be more than a little egoistic to have the nerve to ask that kind of price just because you're famous?

Brittney Spears is famous, Paco Cepero is legendary. Fame has no value to me personally, talent and contribution however holds enormous value. If I was a wealthy collector/museum, 25k no problem.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2013 17:47:50

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to tele)

quote:

I'm I the only one thinking you have to be more than a little egoistic to have the nerve to ask that kind of price just because you're famous? It's not like the seller has a rush or need to sell it but still, come on, I don't think there has been a conde for that kind of price for sale ever.

Paco Cepero has always been my favorite tocaor, even more so than the traditionalist Paco Pena. I particularly like Cepero accompanying cantaores. Why do you think he is egotistical to want 25,000 Euros for his Conde? He is a very well-known flamenco guitarist, and he probably does not much care whether someone buys the guitar or not. Why let it bug you? You have the choice of buying the guitar at that price or perhaps negotiating a slightly lower price, or you can walk away. Either way, no harm is done to you.

Cheers,

Bill

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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2013 17:49:22

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to tri7/5)

quote:

I wouldn't buy EVH's original frankenstrat for 25,000.

There were copies made to exacting specs a few years ago that went for $25,000 new. Not a good investment if you ask me and the same goes for Cepero's Conde. If anyone does buy a guitar like Cepero's it had better come with irrefutable provenance.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2013 17:50:00

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to tele)

It doesn't sound like Paco Cepero actually wants to sell that guitar. He probably means it would take 25 grands for him to part with it. If you offered me this price, I would still refuse to sell either of my DeVoes.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2013 18:09:20

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to tele)

Cepero isn't egoistic man.
Look, he even accompanies with a broken leg ;)
Then again, when i think about it, maybe he is egoistic.
Cante heals your wounds faster for sure

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2013 18:45:51

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to Arash)

Paco may be prepotente, but he is not egoistic and is even altruistic. Curiously, I know him personally only through the toros rather than flamenco (we both had abonos in la Plaza de El Puerto de Santa María).

The CD of Santiago Donday is a classic example. Santi used to have café in la Plaza de la Catedral every day and when I passed , he always asked me when I was going to record him. But I knew that he wanted 2,000,000 pts up front and that I could not control him in the studio. This CD is a tour de force de Paco, because Santi was not in his best moment.

Rancapino hopes that his son will make a CD soon and tells me that Cepero will play. These projects bring in very little money nowadays, but Paco does whatever pleases him. He is rich, more through his compositions than through flamenco, but I think most of us would like to be in his position, where he can live quietly and only involve himself when he is a gusto.

¡Olé Paco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2013 23:31:52

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Rancapino hopes that his son will make a CD soon and tells me that Cepero will play.

That would be a cool move.

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2013 7:04:25

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to mezzo)

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bob-dylans-newport-guitar-sells-for-nearly-a-million-bucks-20131206

Anyone fancy an expensive Strat?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2013 8:57:49

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to Morante)

On subject of old condes, does anyone know, did they use to stamp the guitars in the mid 70's, like this:

https://www.lasonanta.eu/en/catalog/product/gallery/id/889/image/8410/

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2013 12:13:18

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to mezzo)

quote:

Rancapino hopes that his son will make a CD soon and tells me that Cepero will play. quote

That would be a cool move.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2013 12:34:49

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to tele)

quote:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bob-dylans-newport-guitar-sells-for-nearly-a-million-bucks-20131206

Anyone fancy an expensive Strat?

And we're bitching about Pacos 25k??? At least he could play his guitar.......

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2013 16:31:38

pjn

Posts: 113
Joined: Mar. 23 2009
From: New York

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to Grisha)

Exactly -- I don't know this guy Tele, but I do see his posts, looking for such and such an instrument for not more than such and such a price -- so what guitar he can buy for how little money seems to be what interests him. This has nothing to do with flamenco, it has only to do with 'things'. Sounds like he asked Paco Cepero how much he would sell his guitar for and got an answer designed to mean 'get lost' or the like.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2013 4:02:08

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to pjn)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pjn

Exactly -- I don't know this guy Tele, but I do see his posts, looking for such and such an instrument for not more than such and such a price -- so what guitar he can buy for how little money seems to be what interests him. This has nothing to do with flamenco, it has only to do with 'things'. Sounds like he asked Paco Cepero how much he would sell his guitar for and got an answer designed to mean 'get lost' or the like.

No way, the instrument I am looking for has nothing to do with Cepero's conde. I'm looking for a faustino conde for reasonable price in Andalucia(I have seen them going in local ad sites for 3500-5500 eur). My friend knows paco and he asked him about it out of curiosity(I would not have the nerve!). I didn't expect to buy his guitar as I know I dont have the money. I am considering it excessive to ask 18k-20k for your own name and asked for opinion of others. Even when cepero is in top five of all time flamenco guitarists in my opinion.

quote:

"- so what guitar he can buy for how little money seems to be what interests him. This has nothing to do with flamenco, it has only to do with 'things'. Sounds like he asked Paco Cepero how much he would sell his guitar for and got an answer designed to mean 'get lost' or the like."

F*** you man with your conclusions of your imagination, couldn't you be less rude?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2013 11:20:42

pjn

Posts: 113
Joined: Mar. 23 2009
From: New York

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to tele)

You call me the F word and ask why I'm rude? And you PM me saying "what's your problem?" And your original post says that Cepero quoted 25,000, now apparently the price has come down to 18 - 20 -- so the way things are going the guitar might eventually be in your price range!!

I don't have any problems -- well except that I'm looking for a Gerundino, but it has to be older than a 1975, and be in the US, and for less than $5,000 -- oh, and also I heard that Tomatito won't sell his Reyes for less than 100,000 euros -- I can't stand legendary geniuses using their reputations to make money, that's really f***ed up, know what I mean?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2013 15:53:28

pjn

Posts: 113
Joined: Mar. 23 2009
From: New York

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to pjn)

And by the way, if you are in Spain and looking for a good deal on a Conde I suggest seeing Jordi at Solera in Barcelona -- he is a good source. This past June I bought a 2000 Conde blanca from him which belonged to Jeronimo Maya, for less than 3,000 euros, a very nice guitar. Jordi is a good guy who really loves guitars and flamenco and is well connected to the flamenco world in Spain.

Good luck with your search.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2013 16:04:57

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to pjn)

quote:

Jordi is a good guy who really loves guitars and flamenco and is well connected to the flamenco world in Spain.

This is my experience too. For me Jordi is the best flamenco guitar dealer in the world, he finds and sells very good guitars, sometimes exceptionally good ones and he sells them for a fair price.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2013 16:55:49

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Paco Cepero's conde (in reply to pjn)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pjn

You call me the F word and ask why I'm rude? And you PM me saying "what's your problem?" And your original post says that Cepero quoted 25,000, now apparently the price has come down to 18 - 20 -- so the way things are going the guitar might eventually be in your price range!!

Wow a second great conclusion by you, are you serious, I meant the price difference between normal priced conde and paco's is 18-20k euros(meaning he is asking that for his name). I said: " I am considering it excessive to ask 18k-20k for your own name and asked for opinion of others.". And here your detective mind is thinking I have been negociating it down from 25k eur.

Lame, seriously.

quote:

"You call me the F word and ask why I'm rude?"

Only after your first post I sent you a PM and replied rudely. You draw false offending conclusions by misinterprentation(twice in this post already!), what can you expect?

Obviously I think you have some kind of a problem so I PM'd you naturally with "what's your problem?".

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2013 17:29:30